Yeah it’s hard to look at that and think “Yeah we can’t ever mend relations after this”. But I also think a lot of the stuff in Outland was just violence-for-violence sake (I had another word that worked better but Blizz thinks it’s ‘naughty’), another example of Blizz being like “We don’t really know how to write stories well, so this is how we’re dividing these two peoples.”
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If the Draenei had crashed closer to Durotar they would be Tauren.
If the Draenei had crashed in Dun Morogh they’d be drunk
“Everything is fine!”
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Having to divide everything into factions does force black and white mechanics when nuance would be more interesting.
Yes, Draenei should be mad at Orcs. In particular, the younger Draenei who only ever knew Draenor as their home might feel particularly betrayed.
Many Draenei, especially the older ones who saw lots of societies tricked into aiding the legion, might also sympathize with the Horde somewhat, because they have the perspective of thousands of years. This is basically how Velen is written, and our role in the story is typically as nonpolitical enemies of the Legion willing to accept help from anyone, and willing to offer profound help even to recent enemies (e.g. restoring the Sunwell).
Even younger Draenei, the <35 year old crowd, grew up post-Draenor. They might have grown up as orphans alongside Orcs in the Lower City… or they might have spent so much of their life on Azeroth that they only see themselves as citizens of Stormwind or whatever. So they could go either way.
Draenei don’t neatly fit into the Horde or the Alliance. They’re righteous Orc-slaying Paladins like Maraad, yes, but also neutral healers like Velen, and light-scorned shamans like Nobundo. So I’m glad that things like neutral guilds are gonna be a thing in DF, signalling a decline of faction war narrative, because I agree with Gotosh–there’s some fertile ground for interesting interaction between Orcs and Draenei, among other x-faction groups, which just hasn’t really been explored much.
I’ve mulled over trying to get RP going on Outland as an x-faction nexus of the various groups with interests there–Draenei, Orcs, Blood Elves, High Elves, Wildhammers, as well as non-playable races like Ethereals and Broken that people still sometimes RP. Factions are particularly irrelevant on Outland, where Orcs, Draenei, Ogres and who knows what else are all living together in the Lower City or wherever. Never been sure if anyone is interested in that sorta thing other than me, but maybe we can get some alien dialogue goin on in space in DF.
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I think there’d be more of a natural wariness.
The fact is, the history between the orcs and the Draenei is dark. Everyone knows that and I don’t need to elaborate.
Velen may have regarded Durotan highly, but this does not mean the Draenei as an entire population group would be quite as accepting of, to put it bluntly, the fel-corrupted murderers who obliterated most of their race. It takes a lot to forgive and forget that sort of thing.
Not to mention that warlike sentiment continued. Pride in the ways of the old Horde, perhaps minus the deal with the demons, was not something that Thrall ever fully trained his people out of. See: Garrosh.
The Night Elves, on the other hand, were new and friendly. Their human allies worshipped the same power/force as the Draenei. I think, even if the Draenei landed closer to Orgrimmar, they’d have been naturally more attracted to the humans of Theramore than the Orcs of Orgrimmar, purely because of the history, and the religious/ideological commonalities between Draenei and humans.
So in a way the rest of the questions are a moot point - I do not believe the Draenei would seek membership in the Horde.
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Oh absolutely!!! I can very much agree to this. I hope my own writing is understood that I never approach these ideas that I think it’s all or nothing. I notice often with some players, they interpret stories as too black and white and that clearly the idea here is I think draenei belong on the Horde. I think it’s just an interesting question mostly, I think if I were writing an internal monologue for Thrall, he might wonder what that would be like and it could even come into conversation with Velen.
However I see the dialogue between them ultimately realizing that even though they were able to clear things up as far as histories, that the right choice is for the Draenei to go to the Alliance. I think that being a choice despite being aided by Thrall is extremely interesting. Never will I ever think of an entire race as one mindset , however. Only the popular mindset that might drive a community. That being which, they would probably not want to be near the orcish people as unfortunate as a statement that may be. Sure it’s fantasy, but there is still a bit of a bite of pain when you get into the “I can’t be near you because you’re [this race].” But it’s complicated regardless. Always will, but its why I think its important to explore these ideas and narratives and even topics as a whole.
It’s why I just don’t buy or want total peace, I want conversation on the complicated natures of faction relationship, culture relationship and the racial relationships rather then it all boil down to point and click kill.
I feel even in that though, if they went to Theramore, it would still be a soft blow. I can see story wise there being a chance with Jaina. Upon hearing these new people speak viciously about the orcs, she might want to come see what was happening. It likely could lead to a meeting with Thrall, and those two having deeper conversations again about him and his people. I can see that leading into wanting to arrange something , so even then I can still see Thrall and Velen speaking due to the kind interaction with Jaina. If that is the draenei’s first interaction with the humans it will be very confusing and very emotionally taxing.
Apologies for length, I Added the rest under summary. Just me going on again.
Summary
They will be hearing so quickly the negative stories from the humans and then Jaina wanting to speak to Velen with hopes that maybe she can arrange something. (But were starting to get into a bit of a savior complex here.) It would be a race between…should Thrall get to the crash first before anyone from Theramore, at the worry they may frighten the draenei if they don’t approach cautiously?
Or do they run the risk of the humans getting to them first, and having that shared experience of orcish nightmares, where the humans only frighten the draenei even more about what happened…or would he trust that Jaina’s friendship might soften the blow. Would he want to appear together for support in a quick decision to get to the site so neither of them influence the draenei too heavily since he knows the stories more intimately than most.
The Path of Glory though I think is still a complicated subject, and I think that point in the story is a careful point. A lot of the orcs responsible for those acts are going to be more in line with Saurfang. That was during a time of pure, fel fueled and blood thirsty manipulation at the hands of demons , the Shadow Council and the Legion. It is definitely an awful thing, and I will be the first to remind about this, but I do not think it should be leaned on as it being the done deal… it’s far too complex of a situation to just say ‘Yes’ or ‘No’.
War Crimes actually did rather well (I feel) on showing that you cannot blame all of the orcs for what happened, and I find Tyrande’s reasoning for her points no different than some of the things I see repeated today. Her argument was that since the Frostwolf Clan
did no drink the fel, they probably should not have been a part of the blood raging wars , but then showed the court scenes from the past of Durotan particpating in the slaughter against the draenei, yet she cherry picked (as many do), and left out the details of Durotan becoming enraged at cruel acts against the draenei. The very context of history as well is hard to explain because Durotan also needed to think of his own people, to stay alive and that often results in choices that are hard to defend.
The path of glory was not glorious to many orcs, and it still isn’t. But it still happened, and it’s the greatest shame according to Saurfang. This is why I cannot see it being the only thing. However …from a character perspective? I can see this being used to keep draenei angry, I can see night elves and humans constantly mentioning. Even as I say that, the night elves I’ve RPed with, some do portray a character that is so much like Tyrande, I have no doubt that they would exist and they would be keeping certain ideas in others mind and this happens on the Horde as well.
Say what you will about faction conflict, I find that a lot of what we see happening is no different than some of the things we have happen in our every day life with only have parts of a story, misinformation, conspiracy and bad portrayals of a people. Even in RP communities, I see much of our own lives reflected in some scenarios that feel right for the world…and right for us as well.
But, of course, I in no way think they would up and forgive the Horde right off the bat, it’s a silly thing to think and I would never get so simple.
As for training the pride out, I don’t think that’s at all what he would do no. But what was different was the re-introduction into traditions they lost and being able to experience peaceful mindsets by being exposed to the tauren. By traditions returning and being able to practice what was lost. If they were able to be moved deeply by the tauren’s culture, by the traditions returning, I can fully a mindset…just for that moment, when Thrall was wanting to return to a sense of culture, that may. Just maybe something could of at least been spoken about to soften the interaction that would of led to the decision to help Velen seek aid from Theramore and eventually the Alliance.
It’s a very exciting idea for me, and I love getting into the many compilcations of it. But I can’t only see it as it being a done deal in a negative light. It’s far too intricate and interesting to not see what can be good and bad.
It would have been great if they crashed right into Orgrimmar – many problems solved.
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If Thrall hadn’t been such a Hellscream-stan, Garrosh would still be a mopey baby in Nagash.
It is very easy to think this I feel. But from the perspective of Thrall, I can very much see the hope he had. Grommash and Thralls relationship was an interesting one of past and present. I think it’s only natural to have a faith in someone that was related to someone so dear to you. Garrosh could have been the orc to remind people of proper home structure, but he…I’d say… are a representation of the very people who view orcs only a war mongering race. He’s extremely interesting in that he was brought up only on stories and visuals and misinterpreted them, used them how he wanted, (Nagrand) cherry picked his ideals and completely decimated some groups that were already small enough (his own people of Garadar and the Dragonmaw.)
I don’t blame Thrall solely for Garrosh’s actions, the fact he feels responsibility though is a realistic response. It’s easy to blame yourself for the actions of other people when they betray your trust, and you think of all the things you wish you did differently. But there was no way of knowing, fully, even with warnings. As people we have complicated attachments, beliefs and faith in things. Because should it have gone well? They would of agreed with Thrall, some even saying ‘We knew you were right.’ Garrosh is a great leader. But it went badly, so it was Thrall’s fault and only his fault. When it’s mesh of many ideas. When you love someone, it’s easy to want to believe you can see it through and his reasoning as a leader made perfect sense for the context of the time.
But I don’t really want this to turn into a Garrosh debate thread…there is enough of those out there that get taken off course with Garrosh did nothing nothing wrong VS Thrall is awful ect ect. Still interesting though, what would have happened if Garrosh just stayed in Nagrand. (I think he’d come over on his own.)
I appreciate the interesting discussion here so far! I was worried people wouldn’t get into it or treat it as a joke. This is an idea I really like to think about, it has been fun to actually be able to talk and speculate with a lot of you!!!
(And I’m glad to see some draenei players in here I see often. Draenei I feel are not given enough love from this sort of angle. I’ve never been a fan of reducing them down to goat jokes, even as a middle schooler lol.)
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Given the timeline of the story, I doubt anything would have convinced the Draenei to join the Horde, even if they crashed next door. It was only a short 30ish years (my memory is foggy), which probably feels like nothing to the draenei. Given everything that happened in that 30 years - the slaughter of their people, taking refuge in Zangarmarsh, watching some of their people succumb to the red mist and become Broken/Lost - I really doubt much of the population would have been okay with allying with the race that had just caused all of it.
Despite being manipulated by the Legion, it would still be orc faces that draenei would remember killing their families. Maybe over time, they could come to see that the orcs were victims too, but not right after the Exodar crashed and they lost another chunk of their population, especially if the orcs had already allied with the Blood Elves, the other race responsible for major deaths in their population.
I think Thrall would have been the best possible representative for the orcs in this scenario to avoid immediate conflict, but I think it is more likely that Thrall would have contacted the Alliance about it, or perhaps even given the draenei a portion of some Horde-controlled land, like maybe northern Stranglethorn, to settle on their own. I don’t think that the night elves would have been as accommodating to the draenei (who look like eredar, their mortal enemy from the Legion) without the events on Azuremyst Isle, so it would have needed to be the humans of Theramore that would have been the draenei’s first peaceful contact.
Great thought exercise, Gotosh!
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For this hypothetical to work, the Belfs would have had to side with the Alliance… or some other alternate instance would have had to happen. Remember the Belfs were created for the game at the same time as the Draenei. Such as the Sunwell not getting corrupted and they remain high elves.
Arthas could still sack their homeland, but the Alliance could have stepped in and saved them before they turned to fel magic to survive. Remember we don’t have playable high elves for any reason other than the devs being obstinant and contrary.
As for the humans contacting the draenei, I think they would have had the same reaction to the Draenei as the nelfs, being that they look like the eredar… pretty sure they fought the Legion beforehand too?
It’s all tricky because Blizzard forced this overwrought narrative in the story, we’d have to tone down the over-the-top violence on Draenor so that the Draenei don’t nope out of the Horde immediately. Dire circumstances do make strange bedfellows after all.
So say the belfs never become the belfs, and the draenei crash into horde territory, and thrall is the leader. They elves would be alliance peeps, so they would see the not-eredar crashing - lets say in Theramore area - as an attack by the horde. They attack the draenei, because hey they look like eredar! The horde steps in because they are honourable and don’t murder people outright for reasons. They drive off the elves and humans and rescue the draenei.
Of course the draenei are put off by the horde immediately because of the orcs and their draenor-atrocities, but Thrall being the super-diplomat he is, talks with Velen and they smooth things out. The whole leveling process of the Draenei character is them experiencing the horde proving they aren’t the horrible people the fel orcs (who are horde enemies too if I remember correctly) turned out to be.
The Alliance gets the High Elves as playable, they start in their usually island, and experience the Alliance racing in to save them, fight off the Scourges most feared bosses in the Ghostlands and go off to Stormwind at level 20.
It would take a major rewrite in the storyline, but it could work… this is alternate reality we’re dealing with after all. 
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Honestly, this sounds like what blood elf players would of wanted to happen since they feel more at home on the Alliance.
I should state again, that I know that the draenei probably wouldn’t be welcome into the Horde, it’s just sort of a ‘what if’ on what would lead to it.
But your points do make a lot of sesne Lilithiea! If the story was flipped and the blood elves were on the Alliance still rather then kicked away, I could see Velen trying to make the case then for them to have a major gathering between the two people. Maybe see face to face how different time is, and how aging the orcs are. Make them sort of see how quickly orcs have to learn to work through things, where as long lived races can be angry for a long time.
This is one thing that’s actually a big issue for Gotosh in RP is the fact that like orcs for example, have to udnerstand and work through things and come to terms with things quicker where as the night elves might be demanding apologies from orcs for so long, they’ll start putting blame on orcs so far removed they never even touched the situations. Same with draenei. There is negative to in these sorts of things, I try to cover every corner, I mostly just try to see the angles of what could first right away.
If anything the idea of letting the Draenei set up on Horde protected land could be a good comprimise. Like, set up your city and we will help you. You don’t have to be Horde, you just have the protection and we are giving up these fields for you.
Honestly, all of this a lot better. But maybe its just me wishing for more acknowledgement between draenei and orc.
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