Really sounds like people in this thread aren’t utilizing their whole toolkit
Disc has changed. Your play style has to change with it.
I did not get the impression that anyone in here was “pushing” Spirit Shell on anyone. We’re just making the statement that it’s a mana-efficient rotation that provides a lot of preemptive healing across your group. If you’re someone who thinks Disc “feels bad,” there’s no harm in trying it out.
For what it’s worth, I’ve felt I’ve just needed the higher HPS output that Rapture + Shining Radiance provide when doing +5 keys and higher, and I’ve gone back to using Sins+Lenience in M+ dungeons for that reason. But Spirit Shell still has great situational uses in dungeons (and more general use in raids), and I think people owe it to themselves to at least try it out if they’re struggling.
I know for myself, personally, that when I tried SS in dungeons last night it was pretty hit or miss. In the SD5 I ran it felt very strong, but the PF4 was a lot rougher of a run. I personally prefer the Sins+Lenience in M+, so I went back to that setup.
Didnt say anyone was. But i was more talking raids then keys.
All this said, back to the topic of the thread:
The highest key completed right now is a +17 Mists using a Disc priest healer. In the top 10 keys completed right now, there are two disc priest healers. The top clears in several dungeons are disc priest healers. It turns out that they’re doing pretty fine right now. Granted, this is bursting week for the first week, but it’s pretty clear we’re capable regardless.
They should rework desperate prayer. Back in the day it was an emergency heal on a friendly target. Maybe adjust the amount it heals to compensate - but give it two charges and apply or refresh atonement.
Could help PUGs feel more friendly and forgiving.
love that disc feels bad cause everyone was talking about it on beta and dogging on holy, feels good
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I dont remember it being a heal to use on anyone. In classic it wasnt so unless it was changed later.
I dont use desperate prayer as a heal so much as a buff to your HP while being targeted by tyrannical bosses for example
Disc is better the better your group is. And it’s worse the worse your group is. These dungeons are new to everyone. And since it’s the start of the xpac, seasoned players are more likely to be jumbled together with new players.
I do agree some things could be buffed, though. Penance and Mind Blast feel like they could get a 20% buff and be just right. PW: Solace’s CD is too long for the damage it does…it was 10s in Legion, now it’s 15s.
You’re popping double radiance in a 5 man? For the quick pop of added healing or for a proc of penitent?
I was previously using Spirit Shell when running m0 and lower keys when damage was more predictable/less consistent. During that time, yes, and any time I still run m0 dungeons, I double-cast Radiance inside my Spirit Shell windows because it’s more HPS efficient than just slamming Radiance on a bunch of people already maxed health and because it helps proc (and oftentimes double-proc) Penitent One, which I have grown to use outside Spirit Shell and Rapture windows for spot healing.
Since I’ve written this post, though, I’ve been pugging a lot of +5 and higher keys, and I just find that damage is much more consistent, necessitating Lenience over Spirit Shell. I’ve actually gone ahead and swapped to Holy in higher keys entirely. That’s not necessarily because Disc felt bad in any way but because Flash Concentration is just ridiculously powerful. Once I get Twins I’ll likely return to Disc, but I have no intention of returning to Spirit Shell beyond +6 keys.
A lot of this is learning dungeons and understanding when to use pain supp/barrier, I think.
With a tank you know you can coordinate pain supp better. But even in pugs, knowing what mobs are about to slam your tank, or which ones are going to cast something horrible is incredibly important. I’ve also found plenty of use for shackle undead.
The only dungeons that consistently will give me trouble are Spires of Ascension and Sanguine Depths. There’s a lot of stuff in both of those dungeons that will do massive damage if the group doesn’t deal with it properly, and beyond that, they’re often in back to back packs, so you can’t use cooldowns to easily cover them. Definitely possible to do +10s and above though. Just hard to get really solid Pug players. To the point where I’ve added way more people this xpac.
I know when to use my cooldowns, but thanks.
The point is that Holy is just a far more forgiving spec when you have a tank who doesn’t manage their cooldowns well or when you have DPS that don’t kick. Holy has access to a genuine interrupt, has Guardian Angel for a tank death save, and just overall has better mana efficiency with Flash Concentration when traited to run both Trail/Surge of Light.
Is Disc overall a stronger healer? I think the leaderboards indicate pretty clearly that, in an organized group with comms, Disc is far superior and is arguably the strongest M+ healer. But I am not in these groups. I am a graduate student who has thirty minutes here and there to play during the day, and usually can only put in serious hours late at night after most of my friends/guildmates have gone to sleep.
So, like, I get what you mean – but I also just want to clear keys. I don’t think there’s really any benefit to making this argument here, especially if you’re going to just insinuate I don’t know how to play the spec. Both Disc and Holy are viable – it’s just that Disc demands much more coordination in higher keys. I feel like this is undeniable.
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It’s not an argument, I’m sorry if it came across that way?
I’m able to pug a +10 key, I’m willing to bet most people are able to as a result. I still am going to stick to guild groups/people I know/people I met in pugs as much as I can. But I don’t think any healer is having an easy time with entering high keys in pugs right now. I don’t even know how I’d cover some of the worst mistakes on a holy pally in a dungeon ATM. Divine toll/LoD certainly wouldn’t burst people back from a volley that wasn’t kicked. The only healer I could see pugging not being horribly stressful on right now is probably Shaman because of incap totem and wind shear. And I’ve said several times in this forum that Flash Concentration is Holy’s BiS by far and they should be using it. I’m well aware of how strong it is. I just don’t find it meaningfully makes keys easier for me over just running as Discipline.
I’m just giving some input, and it wasn’t even directed entirely at you. More liberal use of pain supp and barrier (BEFORE things go wrong) is pretty necessary in pugs of high keys. But if you’re having fun on holy, more power to you.
seems like you took a pretty constructive post and took it personal. pain up > guardian btw
It’s unsolicited advice. I’m not offended by it, but I have a right to say it’s condescending. I am having no problems playing Disc. I just think it’s easier pugging on Holy.
Pain Supp lasts 8 seconds and is a 40% DR. Guardian Spirit lasts 10 seconds and increases healing by 60%. It’s more powerful and has a longer duration, and it revives them if they die. I’m curious where you think Pain Supp outperforms, especially when you can talent GS to only have a 1-minute cooldown if you use it proactively like it’s Pain Suppression, meaning it’s available almost every big trash pull.
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Just scanning your profile, you’re clearly doing much higher keys than I’m doing, but you’re also not clearing them on time. When I am talking about pugging dungeons and clearing them, I don’t mean completing them – I mean clearing them under time.
So, yeah. Sure. I am “able to pug a +10” key on my Disc setup too, but I’m not going to spend 60-90 minutes in a dungeon and pray for the eventual one piece of loot that drops out of the chest at the end. That’s just not a good use of my time, and I don’t really consider that “clearing” the content either.
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You should really be careful here when you analyze people’s profile. You don’t have context to what they were doing and when. My mists clear was a +2, and we had pugged 3 people (and added them!). The rest of the week I was taking undergeared guild members on the raid team into dungeons to try and get them completion since I had a +12 key, and we didn’t worry about time. If you’re actually going to stalk me you could see what I’m actually timing, too. After all, you can’t throw stones in a glass house with your profile displaying over-time keys as well.
Again, most of this wasn’t directed at you, so the personal offense you’re taking, along with weird profile stalking isn’t really warranted. We’re in a topic talking about Discipline’s performance. Advice isn’t ‘unsolicited’ when you’re posting in a thread with the title ‘disc needs help.’ It’s not condescending at all for me to reply to the thread with 3 posts about how pugs are unhealable saying that a lot of that might be not using pain supp/barrier properly. So how about you don’t just be a huge dick about it? (And yes, at this point I AM talking directly to you)
How about you look at the 6 posts between my last, 3 of which were about just not being able to heal pugs at all. I didn’t even hit reply to you. You seriously need to cool it. If you like holy, and you want to play holy, and you’re having success with holy that’s totally fine, again re-read my second post. I SAID that. But keys are absolutely puggable.
Also an edit here:
The amount of damage you can potentially reduce with a Pain supp is far higher than the amount you can heal with a GA. Pain supp allows you to pull things you otherwise could not, and a GA would just immediately get popped on. If a tank is ever about to take a burst for most of their health bar, the vast majority of the time Pain supp is a better CD.
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Huh? I’m not the one going around saying “I’m willing to bet most people are able to pug +10s.” You made a claim, and I made a cursory thirty-second scan of the content you’ve completed. That isn’t stalking. That’s doing research.
I dismissed your advice as unwarranted and condescending. That isn’t the same thing as being offended, and I think it’s hilarious that I’m the one claimed to be defensive when you’re doing the name-calling.
But back on topic:
When comparing one cast to one another, sure. But you can cast two additional Guardian Spirits with the Guardian Angel talent in the time it takes for Pain Suppression to come off cooldown.
While a Disc Priest may manage a bigger individual pull with spells like Pain Suppression or Barrier (though Barrier is less useful when the tank kites), I think you’re overly discounting the overall increase in average throughput by having Guardian Spirit up for 10 seconds every 1 minute. It’s literally available on every trash pull. Guardian Spirit essentially has ~16% overall uptime in combat with the Guardian Angel talent, which is a massive increase in our overall throughput. You simply don’t have to make the big pulls you do as a Disc Priest to clear time, at least not in +5-7 runs.
This is such a weird statement.
You don’t have to make big pulls as a disc priest?
It’s just a little more feasible with a DR.
And if you’re not in situations where those CDs are needed as holy or disc then the value of GS further deteriorates.
But yeah just play what’s better for you and your group 