Just turn it into a dps with offspec heals. Shadow is doing better heals right now. Disc can’t even triage in m+. Routinely I carry dps in m+ in holy priest, while still pumping damage. Disc falls flat on its face in every way, heals and damage. And even damage reduction at this point. (Nf faeries was better).
Don’t balance dps around atonement.
Give a better raid CD then lights wrath.
Holy is overpowered three hpriest can stagger hymm/salvation with faeries reduction from NF which is insane and still pump ST healing through serenity and surge and FC.
Disc used to be cool. It used to be thematic. Now its basically a crippled version of hpally with 50% of the dps and horrible AoE survivability. And 20 more buttons with a complex rotation that needs basically nothing else going on in the game loop to execute.
It’s not a design problem, it’s a player knowledge problem.
The only way to ‘fix’ it is to remove all damage spells from healers. Barring that, good healers will always be looking to do damage in every game now. It’s been happening in classic, too.
Chances are you’ll never see that dynamic in any MMO again. The playerbase for them has just gotten better.
Usually players with that mentally I’ve been able to easily out heal them.
I do agree, it is a Player issue because you see this is other games like overwatch for example.
But design is also a factor too.
If you are giving. The players these tools, then they will find a way to apply them to the scenario.
The company has yet to fully design the game around the core component, the classes. Even for DF we might have to wait another expac to actually see in depth changes. And reworks
This isn’t true at all. I could carry people through insane damage as a nf holy priest. And still pull 6k dps. Actual dps players could literally stand in fire on mechanics in 20s or not even CC wolves in Iron Docks.
As disc. Even if I ramp now the dps players fall over dead like paper dolls. And i do 3k dps myself pumping as hard as possible and am oom and on CD so next pack we all die.
And I’m a very good proactive healer in all specs.
Disc needs some reason to switch specs and put buttons on the bar.
That should be:
dmg
damage reduction
absorbs
They do absolutely nothing good right now and no unique talents. Now they don’t even have raid ramps anymore.
Summary my thoughts better. I am Fine with thee idea of offensive supports, but they really do need to redesign the game to better include such diversities
Like bruisers, offensive supports. Utility dps classes etc
Then they didn’t need to do that healing, and were playing correctly. Chances are you overhealed a lot and didn’t need to heal as much as you did, too.
Ultimately WoW is a numbers game. There is a finite amount of healing any encounter requires unless your team purposefully stands in things to hurt themselves. If that finite healing is covered, what do you expect a healer to do? Stand still?
That’s the problem that exists in current MMOs. You can’t solve that problem with any design barring forcing healers to heal. But then you lose solo potential.
You’re playing poorly or taking bad talents.
I’m doing about 7-8k on Disc in dungeons on Necrolord (the most mana-hungry covenant) and I’m not ooming. You can look up the better disc streamers and they’re doing similar, or higher near 10k on kyrian.
Holy can also do ~10k right now, but it’s largely a result of a single talent - empyreal blaze - which is a strong candidate for nerfs.
In reply to this even in vanilla everquest where the holy trinity is sacred priest nuke and stun. We nuked to help a mob go from 30% to 20% and start fleeing. We nuked to burst down casters or kill a mob with low hp before they could heal, flee, or gate away gathering friends. Clerics could hold their own reasonably well in solo content 5-10 lvls below themselves, which translates to soloing minibosses and minor elites at ilvl in wow.
I would really love purely support specs.
Disc was never this crippled before.
Everyone should have a reasonable time doing world content and filling in in burst window in group content. Valen isn’t helpless. Just because you can heal doesn’t mean you can’t put up a fight.
I’ve seen and been in groups with dps heals and it can force the dps to stop rotation and heal themselves
But that’s besides the point I am trying to make.
I just. Think the game is not properly designed for this. They just. Threw the concept in there. Without the proper adjustment required to include such diversities. And they still arnt
It’s not a specifically disc priest problem that you’re describing.
Remove Disc priest from the game right now, and you’ve still got Holy Pally and Monk doing tons of DPS with their healing. Remove them and you’ve still got Holy priest casting holy fires and keeping SW:P up and spamming nova. Remove them and you’ve got druid catweaving and shaman chain lightning, etc.
Healers doing DPS is not going to change, because that is entirely a result of getting better at the game. Again, in classic WoW, healers were doing DPS. Even when the mana economy was at its worst they were wanding as much as possible. Nothing about the game design changed from the classic days when healers would only heal. But the players were still doing DPS.
Ive also done 4 dps 15s gambit in shadows spec and still timed it 5 minutes to spare. Without any heals at all. Just dps offheals. This may as well just become the standard.
I could burst 9k on target dummies last week over a 30 second window. After this weeks nerf a 5k sustain is likely the best and thats sacrificing healing and utility to the point where no serious group would take me.
My main experience is disc three weeks b4 prepatch. What i played with post prepatch isn’t that good. GCD hungry. Overly complex and mana inneficient. The huge nerfs. 3 min evangelism and half radiance and 50% Mindgames is absolutely insane.
Not without at least a 50% buff to smite and mana reduction on mindblast. And a big buff to shadow covenant.
It just doesn’t bode well. Even as a subspec for soloing world content. A fully focused heal spec will still be viable in 15s. Completely add absolutely nothing extra to the group though and have worse wipe protection than holy priest.
What in the world are you talking about? Disc only lost damage on Mindgames. In M+ mindgames is negligible damage. It’s a nice to have spell, but it’s not even CLOSE to your top damage. Neither was reflective shield.
Like at the absolute maximum this is a loss of like 500 overall if you were taking PW:S talents and shielding a ton, lol. But realistically this is like a 100 dps loss. And you can just fill the times you would have casted mindgames in packs with Hnova and probably make it up.
Y bother making a subspec with good capstone talents?
The point is those talents shouldn’t be in game unless they have a niche. Which could at least be efficiently grinding world content. They don’t even have that. 50% of what’s available to disc is a joke. We are right back to our single viable milquetost subcreation dot net build with no flare. Nothing to write home about.
This is just not reflective of pre-patch disc at all.
In M+, pre-patch disc has significantly more mana than it had before. It can heal with Atonement more than it ever could before, and PW:S is keeping tanks up almost on its own.
We also got Twilight Empowerment and harsh discipline, which is significant damage.
We lost mind sear, so uncapped AoE is worse.
Hnova is necessary for disc to do damage in M+, as much as Mind Sear was. But it’s also necessary for Hpriest now, especially when Priest has a constant 10% mitigation now.
If you’re doing 9k on GROUP dummies, you’re doing extremely low damage. Disc can do about 20k sustained on them in the prepatch - and in beta after losing our borrowed power, and getting to level 70 (and getting full access to all our damage increases), we’re doing about 21k (more if we PI). For reference, every healer is between 20 and 30k in the same scenario, and priest has PI on top of it.
We aren’t looking bad in dungeons - the only concern is really Holy Priest and Monk as far as the meta goes.
Im looking at 5 targets. We looking at the same thing?
And what about the 5 second window on hnova talent? Seems bad if we are mass dpsing grps. Good if we are primarily healing stuff and occasionally chipping in.
Im will to wait for DF… I was amped to get some use out of two or three talent loadouts for different content… even if not optimal in pushing M+ or Mythic raids.
It’s looking like we are being forced back into a single meta build with tertiary builds being absolutely meaningless if they don’t conform the just healing only meta.
I don’t remember how many dummies the kyrian group dummies are, but if I’m bursting them I can get about 20k. It’s largely carried by good boon usage, but it is what it is. At 70, Twilight empowerment becomes way more important.
With no borrowed power whatsoever, I’d be expecting about 9k DPS on 4-5 target. And again, at 70 I see about 21k in beta right now.
Can pretty much ignore it. It’s OK to have from time to time, especially after bosses, but you never want to play into it. The damage increase is 10% every 5s. You can cast nova 5 times every 5s. Just napkin mathing that it’s 500% damage for 110%.
Obviously you can’t always be holy nova-ing, so it’s a minor DPS increase when you can’t. But overall, it’s a pretty negligible talent - the talent that gives nova 10% damage when you cast PW:S is significantly better.
The game is far burstier. Without personals they’d just fall over and die in a burst window regardless of their healer.
That said, did you play classic bc pvp? People were still eeking out as much damage as they possibly can on healers now. Player attitude has changed, despite the game being the exact same as it was.
I tried classic, didn’t play because it wasnt 100 percent like it was before. So I just went back to retail lol. Plus I didn’t feel like. Grinding again.
Also gear discrepancy back then was even worse and I was always vocal about this.
Leaving that said.
I always had this mindset during bc. and wrath times. I always knew the devs were not properly designing the classes and I Have been very vocal about this subject matter for a. Long time.
I can. Easily play a game and tell how far off the design is.
The only game were I enjoyed class design so much was AION during launch period and half a year in.