Was super excited to play this hero spec going into the expansion but it’s not what I was expecting. I don’t like my Immolate being an instant cast, and I don’t enjoy the stacking mechanic of Blackened Soul. I feel like this talent tree, (no matter how strong or weak it ends up being,) really “cheapens” the Destro rotation. I need to put so much priority on refreshing my Withers (so I don’t lose the stacks) over getting off Chaos Bolt casts. It’s tedious and not very engaging or fun gameplay, just running around spamming an insta-cast dot for half the time.
What I would like to see changed:
Make Wither have a cast time equal to UA or Immolate, and make it replace UA instead of Corruption. Then make one of the talent tree nodes put UA’s dispel protection onto Corruption for Aff and Havoc for Destro. This ends up being a slight buff for Aff (and you get to keep Corruption which is a more iconic spell than UA anyway), and Destro can use Havoc to do split DPS for once (which should be part of its core identity anyway) instead of it just being a way to double up your Mortal Coil.
And yes, Wither being a casted shadowflame spell is a big nerf to Destro as getting shadowflame locked is very detrimental. But I think the damage of the dot can just be adjusted to compensate for this, (and I think Wither being a high risk high reward spell matches the Destro identity just like Chaos Bolt.)
Blackened Soul: I haven’t come up with a great idea on how to rework this but I was thinking it could be an overlapping (not stacking) buff that increases your Wither tick speed for every soul shard you spend (kinda like power overwhelming). And on another node put a passive that has X% chance to proc every time that Wither deals damage, to reward spending lots of soul shards and speeding up the tick speed. I think a proc that buffed your next Drain Life would be cool because this is currently a dead ability for Destro, and I think it aligns with the Satyr theme of Hellcaller.
Also I don’t think Cataclysm should apply Wither, I think it would be better if it applied a regular Immolate even if you are specced Hellcaller.
Theyre prob not a game dev, but they wanted to put their ideas out there. They may or may not be balanced, but its irrelevant. They just want to express themselves.
Insta-cast Immolate feels really cheap, I have been Destro main since Cata. Running around spamming an insta-cast dot that’s doing 40% of my DPS does not feel like Destro, it’s supposed to be a hard caster. But I guess most people just want their spec to be OP as possible and don’t care about a fun or rewarding gameplay loop??? If you want this style of gameplay then why not just play boomy or aff.
Because I assume if Wither was on the same level as UA, then applying it AoE would be too strong and too difficult to balance? Why is this such a dealbreaker for you? I think it should be a very strong dot that feels very rewarding to get the cast off? Not something you are just vomiting out on all enemies at all times?
I don’t think my opinion is wild, I want destro to feel like destro. I have played it for 14 years. I think it’s even more wild that people are ok with their spec being completely turned on its head like this. I have played other specs in TWW and hero talents are supposed to feel like a nice compliment or addition to your spec, not like they totally change it. 40%+ of my dps from 1 button is wild.
If you really think having to hard cast your immolate is tedious then why do you even want to play Destro? The ability has been like this since Vanilla.
Why not just go Diabolist instead of Hellcaller?
Diabolist has hard cast immolate and is essentially the same rotation as Destro was last season with passive pet proc damage spawning of shards spent.
I didn’t understand Hellcaller in the beginning, but you can still focus on chaos bolts which are still very strong, and just use your 1 min CD for blackened Soul as needed.
But if you don’t want to focus on instant dots or stacks, just play diabolist, no? You have the option
Yes I have been playing diabolist but as I said I was excited about Hellcaller until I actually played it and am just disappointed in what they ended up going with. I think it had potential to be really cool but it completely changes the way the spec feels/plays like no other hero spec I have seen.
lol true let’s just turn every caster into hunters good idea
It’s a shame so many people think like this. Insta-cast = good, easier = good, less effort = good. Everyone just wants their spec to be OP as possible. Nobody cares about the long-term health of their spec or the long-term health of the game, and nobody cares if their rotation is even fun. All that matters is getting as high as possible on the Details meters.
This is JUST like when we got Blood Fear, passive Mannoroth’s Fury, Kil’Jaeden’s Cunning, Ember Tap spam… Everyone gets excited about their shiny new OP toy and doesn’t care about the long-term implications on the gameplay. Based on the history of this game, the gimmick of spamming an insta-cast dot for 45% of your DPS won’t last more than a few patches, trust me. I’ll see you guys next expansion when Wither gets reworked or removed
Why do you even say “worse”? I’m not arguing for a blanket nerf, nor am I arguing for a buff. This has nothing to do with how strong or weak it is, but clearly that’s all anyone cares about. I want it to be reworked so it actually feels like I’m playing a Destro. Like I said, if reworking Wither makes it worse, then the damage numbers can simply be adjusted to compensate. This is about fun and not about your Details meters.
I agree, I really dislike the stacking mechanic built into Wither for PvP. Agony already has a stacking mechanic (but withers stacks aren’t tied to its duration). This makes DoT awareness in PvP more mentally taxing if I’m getting trained in arena while trying to build pressure. I also don’t like the RNGness of the stack collapsing mechanic. This kind of mechanic feels more natural and suitable in PvE environment IMO.
As for blackened soul, I suggest moving the stacking mechanic away from Wither and creating a separate stacking buff on the warlock that keeps increasing the tick rate of your existing DoTs each time we spend soul shards on dmging spells. This way, affliction keeps the design philosophy of ramping up DoT pressure until it becomes too much for the enemy .
Overall, I think many Afflock PvPers prefer the “refresh & maintain” style of DoT application, with various mechanics to buff existing DoTs. A collapsing stack of DoTs that resets back to 1 count feels counterproductive (this fits more into spriest gameplay, since they rely on increasing and depleting insanity)
I think this is fair enough. It feels like they designed Hellcaller around aff and not so much around Destro. Dot spam/upkeep is what aff wants to be doing anyway, but when you’re forced to do it on a Destro it doesn’t feel right. When I play Hellcaller Destro and I barely have time to get off Chaos bolts because Wither spam is taking priority, it feels like I may as well just be playing an aff lock
But this is also a very good point… Having to upkeep both agony and wither stacks simultaneously sounds very tedious and un-fun.
That’s actually a really great suggestion.
As much as I’m enjoying Hellcaller in arena, it’s mainly for the instant immo.
Tracking the stacks can be very overwhelming and does make you feel like a second rate aff lock. I’m definitely trying to make it work, but casting chaos bolts can be a lil tricky in between refreshing stacks.
I really hope they buff the Dimensional Rift/Incin build, right now it just isn’t as effective as it needs to be for arena.
Thanks for the feedback! As a suggestion for Destro, maybe wither could increase your Ritual of Ruin stack instead (especially since it was raised to 20), so that you’re rewarded with more frequent Chaos Bolts for maintaining wither. Two separate stack mechanics does indeed feel overwhelming, and Ritual of Ruin should be the main stacking buff for Destro IMO.
The issue with Wither for Destro is that the spec requires chaining and timing hard-hitting spells & instants together in succession to really create kill potential (i.e, CB, Shadowburn, Conflag). Destro also needs prerequisite buffs/debuff (conflag debuff, haste buff) active on targets too. I think adding Wither into the mix with managing the stacks feels too disruptive to Destro’s playstyle priority
Ritual of Ruin at 20 stacks does really hurt the bolt build. I think it was moved to 20 stacks because of the shard gen the overfiend gave aand our other sources when they were trying to nerf the rain of fire pve build, and also the damage of the overfiend, which as it stands the overfiend damage isn’t really anything threatening anymore.
This in turn nerfed one of our biggest accelerators in PvP which is the quick cast chaos bolt. Between all the interupts, dispels & general ramp up time for Destro in arena, waiting on that quick cast Chaoa Bolt takes a longgg time!
That’s fair.
Once we are a season or two into the expansion and our stats scale higher (haste/mastery) I think Diabolist will be a fun PvP build, but with haste so low and hard casting immolate as well as a 20 stack ritual of ruin instead of 10 in the current instant spam meta, it’s not viable currently
