Difficulty =/= Fun

Dude, most WoW player just want easy loot. That is what M+ has always been, no one ran it for the challenge.

WoW players have always been this way. If you could grind normal dungeons for Mythic gear, that would be the highest people would go.

Players will always take the path of least resistence.

Blizzard should have worked on making raiding a modern activity, instead of trying to turn 5 mans into greater rifts.

There have been so many ideas to streamline raiding around the WoW community. They should have kept the challenge in the bigger group sizes.

You can’t balance 5 man content around 40 specs, or come up with a reward strucutre that makes sense around this type of content.

The devs have been struggling with this since day 1 of M+.

The developers should have stuck with they know how to do best, and that was raids.

Trying to make an end game pillar out of solo or small group content in a game like WoW was just dumb.

And you know theres level ranges where this doesnt occur right?

So ill ask again:

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TL;DR: you don’t like difficult content. Good news for you: there’s plenty of easy content in this game for you to enjoy!

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Nore or less, yeah

If I had to guess it’s the +20% damage and HP buff beyond +11s that most people (who can even get to that level) won’t be fond of once they get to that level. M+ is already infinitely scaling difficulty and already has Tyranical & Fortified combined. Why add +20% to all dmg/hp on top of that. Unnecessary imo. My prediction is it will cause people who normally would push beyond KSH rating for fun to just stop playing. The quesion is what are those players going to go do after that? T8 delves lol? If they aren’t in a mythic raiding guild or they don’t pvp they probably are going to just unsubscribe.

OP, I grew up on Contra / Super C.

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Same thing they did before when they found their wall id assume

Difficult is fine by me. It stops being fun if:

  • Success hinges on everybody knowing what to do and failure is caused by one person not doing something, which then triggers a cascade that kills the entire group when there’s a timer ticking away. I.E. Very little room for compensating/correcting mistakes.
  • As a corollary to the first point, being reliant on PuG party members knowing how to play their class/spec well enough to overcome unforgiving challenges.
  • In spite of the group’s best efforts (e.g. high DPS/HPS, rolling CDs, interrupts), the encounter fails anyway because of bugs, overlapping boss abilities, extreme amounts of damage, etc. Fortunately, tuning/bug issues eventually get attention from devs.
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I play this game to relax, and I stay away from the top tier endgame content (with the exception of delves) because it’s so stressful as a solo player. It feels like you’re one bad PUG player away from having your night ruined.

I’d say I spend most of my time collecting pets, toys, mats and transmogs because fashion is the true endgame.

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Youre the rare exception and i appreciate that about you

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Because earning better gear is the nature of the game. This is how we level up. It’s fun to become more powerful. This is kind of the core of any fantasy rpg.

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People (not necessarily this person, don’t want to put words in their…uh…text box) play this game for gear. Its the gear chase, and the gear grind. Playing for power. Power is a quality of life thing. Encounters go faster, much less chance of dying (and ghost walking and rezzing). And, most importantly, more power lets you pursue, what for it, MORE power!

If you get to the top of the curve of power, when the next patch drops, you’ll be 2/3rds there to do it again. More power faster.

Obviously there’s more to the game than just power, but that’s what the game is designed around. That’s why the “hard” content drops the most powerful gear. If the content were hard, and it didn’t drop the powerful gear, “nobody” would do it. Not the mainstream, not the week to week treadmill of working through the RNG to power up the character.

The best way to tackle difficult content is more power. Power is the knob that balance less skillful players with more difficult content. There is skill in the game, there are those people who are better at this game than others, I know, because I’m not one of them. Power is the equalizer. Over time, power > skill (such as one shotting an old raid boss).

Some will get “powerful” enough. “I’m strong enough that I won’t bother with the Mythic difficulty, because the power it gives me is not worth the content I need to do it”.

So far this expansion, I’ve taken the “no power” path. I’m not on the power path per se. That doesn’t mean I’ll leave it on the ground, but I’m not on the treadmill of more and more M+. I’m doing dailies and fishing, and maybe slogging through a couple of delves for the vault (low hanging fruit, though I don’t really care for them).

I want to be out in the world taking far too long to get from one WQ to the next because I keep finding herbs or fishing holes.

And one reason is I’ve accepted a turth about the game. Power is temporary, and power is cheap. I can not step foot in an M+ this entire expansion, yet when the expansion ends and we get ready for the new release, I can no doubt dive into some 3 week special zerg gearing event that will make all of my expansion long “work”, moot. The gear will be as good. The catalyst will tier it “for free”, and I’ll be able to start the next expansion with a step up (if it really matters with the scaling anyway).

Makes it all kinda pointless. Just gotta be patient.

I will, no doubt, “run out of things to do” before the next patch, I’m guessing. Be sick of the dailies, and such. Who knows what happens then. We’ll see. I still have a heap load of story quests to get through.

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The instant it turns into frustration.

Which is why difficulty preferences are SO hard to pin down, the “frustration limit” varies quite a bit between players… but once the threshold is crossed, it’s no longer fun.

Difficulty is fun when it is beatable and does not overly punish you for failing.

Much of this game will not be fun if you simply do not get the gear level first to enjoy said content. Try doing pvp with no pvp gear, or mythic dungeons in world quest gear.

Doing Mythic+ sounds extremely punishing as it is difficult but also doubles down on failures by having a timer and removing rewards for failing and trying again.

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What I want is pretty simple.

Best Gear - minimum effort.
All the mounts - minimal farming effort. (three times tops. - I mean, If blizz can guarantee legendries, they can give away the mounts too.)
Lots of currencies - minimal effort.
Lots of achievement points - no effort.
To be regarded in-game as one of the best players at my class - zero skill.
Heard but not seen.

It’s the feel of victory and dopamine. If you ever played Runescape 2, getting your first skill to 99 is REALLY LONG AND TEDIOUS. But once you get there, the game congratulates you in a unique way. It’s a way of the devs saying, “thank you for playing.”

… even though at times you feel like you’ve wasted a chunk of your life. But at that point you have a shiny new skillcape.

Good M+ tuning: you missed the timer, finished the run and you feel like you had fun and think of what you could’ve done better or differently to not miss the timer.
Garbage M+ tuning: you missed the timer, finished the run and don’t want to see the dungeon you just ran ever again.

TWW is the latter.

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The cutoff is obviously at a level where I can get the max rewards fairly easily pugging with randoms.

Anything that makes that hard, regardless of my skill level, is for the 0.1% no life sweats.

:slight_smile:

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I think it’s important to remember that the forums are for feedback, and in some places people just need a cathartic place to rant.

Which is pretty understandable.

It’s on the Devs to really decide what the difficulty level is they want to achieve. So if you have someone who normally is KSM complaining about +2’s – that’s useful info. Maybe the dungeons do need tuning.

If you have someone who is new to the M+ scene complaining about a +2, that could be exactly what you want to hear. Or maybe you want to open the game up more to new people, so maybe they do need more tuning after all.

All feedback is good feedback imo.

It’s not the worst thing in the world to have a bit of empathy for people who are struggling though. I mean… if everyone else is making something look easy and you’re struggling to get through it – you’re already gonna feel bad even if you don’t wanna admit that it could be just you.

Or maybe you really just want more progression, but you just don’t want to sweat for it.
They’re all valid opinions. Nothing wrong with loving the game and wanting more progression options.

I dunno, just seems to me it makes more sense for forum regulars to be understanding than it does to be like “NO IF YOU CAN’T DO IT F U, UR WEAK MERRRR… I AM GUD U BAD OOGABOOGA” which is usually the typical forum troll response.

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Pvp use to be fun for me , but now i am chasing that carrot stick in pve like everyone else.

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