From what I understand, the following appeared in a PTR, or was Datamined, yet changed before release. But the meme damage was done:
Areiel: It’s a shame you’re fighting alongside this filthy human, Shandris! Such short, insignificant lives.
Areriel: I am destined to live for eternity, I will not die here!
Shandris: You should have died a long time ago, Areiel.
Shandris: Even in your final moments, you fail to see the true potential of humans.
Oh a mountain out of a molehill.
Shoulda known.
Cause it´s perfectly normal to get the General of the Sentinel Army with more than 10k years of military experience defending so bravely the “potential” of a random Human known formerly as a joke character, right?
Man, that´s like Maarad (had he survived, the poor guy) chastising Liadrin over the “potential” of Maximilian… it´s literally facepalm-worthy.
What would you have preferred? For Shandris to say ‘lol you’re right I hate humans too’
Doesn’t seem very upstanding of her.
Nope, in a rare show of actual awareness, devs did just what they needed to do: to remove the whole submissive “muh Human Potential” stuff, period. No need to have Shandris fangirling the fella.
I guess if people like you want to shriek like harpies about how a mild defense of a human character because a figure like Shandris might actually see inherent value about humans and think that’s fangirling, that’s your prerogative.
The trope of humans in most fantasy settings are that they are resilient and versatile. Swiss army knives that breed like rabbits, reasonably competent at many things while most races specialize. That’s probably the human ‘potential’ Shandris was talking about, but if you want the removal of that line to be your stick in the mud, go for it. I think it’s the silliest thing I’ve ever heard of.
The trope is a joke in WoW cause Humans so far have been portrayed not as the versatile but weak characters but the actual OP Mary Sues / Gary Stus ones. We are just literally sick of hearing everybody and their mother glorify the random human NPCs (both big like Jaina and small like Keeshan) in game.
The other races literally don´t specialize simply because you can literally find a human character fulfilling the “best” spot on most classes (literally the ones they don´t have an NPC taking the mantle of the “most relevant / most powerful” is with the Druids and the Shamans… and I suspect that only happened because regular humans can´t roll those two in the first place).
We complain cause WoW has the trope WRONG. And people like you fangirling the “Human Potential” certainly don´t help the cause.
I think one look at the Hearthstone roster shows that you’re pretty firmly in the wrong there. If you consider the base roster of the Hearthstone class heroes as representative of their class, you run pretty quickly into a contradiction to your claim.
Let’s run through who’s actually the ‘best’ of that class.
Death Knight: Darian Mograine, human
Demon Hunter: Illidan, night elf
Druid: Malfurion, night elf
Hunter: Rexxer, orc
Mage: Jaina, human
Monk: Chen Stormstout, Pandaren
Paladin: Uther/Tirion, human
Priest: Velen, Draenei (Anduin is the hearthstone hero, but Velen has been his mentor for years)
Rogue: Valeera (plenty of other notables, but Valeera has been the face of the WoW rogue for a while), blood elf
Shaman: Thrall, orc
Warrior: Garrosh, Saurfang, orc
Warlock: Gul’dan, orc
Gosh, that didn’t play out like you thought it did, huh?
And don’t call me fangirling because I think you’re being unreasonable. You’ll notice I post on an Undead character. Might be indication that I’m not quite on the ‘human potential’ boat like you need me to be.
There is nothing that these devs could possibly do, no curve-balls they could throw or whatever else. Nothing will ever make me play Horde.
It’s not completely gone. They changed it to something like “Still clinging to your outdated views on humans, I see.”
Are you satisfied with the Alliance’s story?
Hearthstone is irrelevant regarding WoW’s character portrayal. You are using another game as the basis of your argument but the let’s see actual in-game portrayal:
Death Knight: Darion Morgraine… Which race does he belong to, again?
Demon Hunter: Illidan Stormrage (but ooops!! Elf-only class)
Warrior: we had MU Grommash dying to average Pit Lord in WC3, Garrosh getting beaten after being empowered by Old God juice and Varian destroying a Fel Reaver solo before dying heroically… Guess which one of these three seems more powerful by his own means?
Rogue: so far we have Human Mathias Shaw stealing the spy screentime for rogues of all races, which yes, makes him the most relevant character (I don’t want to argue about power cause so far and with the exception of Lorash, most rogues hardly get enough focus on the story to properly evaluate their power and skills. You could say Valeera, but let’s be honest, when one compares her actual fail portrayal in the comics with the other rogues she comes as VERY unskilled).
Hunter: this is a hard one. MM types are a discussion between the older Windrunner nutjobs and Shandris, while BM is Rexxar. I’ll concede this one.
Mage: Jaina, Khadgar, Medivh, Aegwyn… Nuff said.
Warlock: before Legion resurrected Gul’dan as raid fodder, the most prominent warlock was Karenthrad (fangirled even by his Forsaken lock partner in the old quest chain for cosmetic green fire)
Priest: God King Blanduin Wrynn, nuff said.
Monk: Chem is the most relevant, I’ll concede him too.
Paladin: Turalyon, Uther.
So far… Seems like in most cases in which humans can roll the classes, they will get the perks of being either the most prominent and/or the most powerful. Out of the 9 classes they can appear as, they have borderline Mary Sues in 7 of them… Totally against the trope we were talking about.
And your posting character is irrelevant, you are still the one trying to dismiss the gross pro-human agenda this game has in regards to character portrayal.
I said Garrosh, not Grommash.
The idea that Kanrethad is more well known than Gul’dan is laughable.
Anduin’s a bit more central to the story, but prominence isnt what you were complaining about, it was the race of the best character in thaf class. Velen is a better Priest, hands down. I’m sorry if that takes the wind out of your sails.
With Shaw, you’re once again confusing prominence for competence. Valeera was one of the most visible rogues in their Order Hall anf has lore that goes back to Wrath. If you have blinders on or can’t see further back than BfA, that’s your problem.
As far as screen time goes, Valeera got a minor showing in the Rogue Order hall and when it comes to BfA she’s had the honor of playing messenger girl for Baine. How luxurious.
Shaw has been getting screen time, voice acting, you name it far more than she has and has actually been in the game longer than her.
I don’t know what relevance Hearthstone events and power levels have to Warcraft lore. I admit I don’t play it.
I saw her on the Horde blimp at the end of Legion. She was the Horde order hall representative for the Rogues.
I don’t know how canon those artifact wielders are.
Karenthrad IS more relevant once Gul’dan gets out of the picture (which coincidentally, he already did in 7.1.5). He’s the de facto leader of the most prominent Warlock organization and being fanwanked as the most powerful.
Sure, sure go and watch God King Blanduin resurrecting the whole Alliance army in BfA’s intro cinematic and after look at Velen’s feats (that amount to almost nothing as usual… Guy sucks as prophet, is the first one to get brainwashed by our treasure Blanduin -Velen’s short story…- and was underwhelming regarding power in Argus), and come back to tell us he’s better priest than Mr. "I can even create Lightsaken with Naaru assistance!!! ".
Lolwut? I main a rogue buddy, and last time I saw the whole stupid Class Hall quest chain was all about saving Mathias’ incompetent behind. Valeera is literally invisible if you don’t choose Sub as spec. Her gross cameo in side material like comics is basically as the “hawt elf enamoured with the Human hero” (the fanservice that joke rogue in bathing suit provides actually supports this theory).
I’m not saying that he hasn’t been more prominent.
It’s been claimed that most of the ‘best’ characters of any given class were human:
Which isn’t true. There’s also a difference between prominent and ‘best’. Zekhan is becoming a pretty prominent character in the Horde story, but no one’s about to say he’s the most powerful shaman. Yrel and Durotar were prominent back in WOD, but no one’s going to argue they’re the best of their classes, either.
Shaw is not the best rogue, even if he’s one of the most visible. So you’re going to need to clarify what exactly you actually have a problem with-- prominence, or which characters are the strongest in that class? Because if you insist upon the latter, like Ariel did before, she’s flat out wrong to say that most classes have their most powerful representative as a human character.
Matter of fact, and I don’t know why I didn’t think of her early, but Garona or Voss are easily more skilled/powerful than Shaw is.
Gul’dan is both more relevant and powerful than Kanrethad ever was. It’s not even comparable. If you’re actually about to argue that Kanrethad is more representative of a Warlock than Gul’dan is, you’ve got a very steep hill to climb.
When a human character for a certain class gets all the spotlight over another even if that other is actually more powerful it gives the perception that said human character is in fact the best.
Sticking to the Warlock argument Gul’dan in both iterations is dead and isn’t coming back. Which leaves Karenthrad uncontested.
Also like how you completely ignored the bit about Anduin outshining Velen.
Whether or not you realize it, I think you’re projecting your interpretation of these things. You consider prominence to be an indication of raw power, and that’s fine. Just don’t act like it applies to everyone. Speaking for myself, I know the difference.
You keep shifting the goal post. Ariel never said ‘best and currently alive’, she only said ‘best’. It doesn’t matter whether or not Gul’dan is dead. That character has been so influential to the lore of Warcraft that his presence is still felt. Kanrethad is not as powerful or as relevant to the Warcraft canon and it’s not disputable.
Kanrethad is only relevant to Warlocks who got the green fire quest and then played in the Warlock Order hall. Gul’dan has been relevant to everyone because he was a driving character of the Warcraft RTS games and a villian in Wod and Legion.
Kanrethad has a poster of Gul’dan in his bedroom hoping he might be one day half as infamous.
All that means is that said character has prominance over that specific moment in the story. That’s it. Anything else that isnt out right stated is just people inferring what they want or dont want to see.
From the cinematic? The one that Ariel is either misremembering or is outright lying about?
You can go and watch it right now. The soldiers we see Anduin healing are shown to be alive, albeit hurt and downed, before the bubble goes up. And said bubble clearly only covers a portion of the battlefield and not the whole army.
So Anduin rezzing the entire army is in fact him just healing a portion of it. A powerful feat to be sure, not nearly as overblown as some have been freaking out about.