The WC3 campaign seems to strongly imply Arthas willingly took up Frostmourne, then willingly obeyed Ner’zhuls wispers. He willingly killed his father and massacred his people. Later on he willingly merged with Ner’zhul, then willingly destroyed Ner’zhul and took over the position of Lich King.
Why then, when we beat Arthas in ICC, does he say “Father, is it over” implying his fate was not of his choosing? Which is it, did Arthas choose to do all the horrible things he did, or did Ner’zhul make him do all of it? If the latter is the case, then how does that explain Arthas betraying Ner’zhul and taking him over in the Helm of Domination? Then doing all the evil things he did in WoTLK while he was in control?
He sought the blade for honest intentions, but carried out its wishes when it absorbed his soul. He mentions as much in that what he is doing is wrong, but he can’t seem to get himself to care.
The Dread Lord (I think Varimathras?) tells him that’s normal, as Frostmourne’s captured his soul.
Arthas willingly took up Frostmourne, but at that point, ceased to be Prince Arthas Menethil, Paladin of the Silver Hand, and became Arthas Menethil, Death Knight and Champion of the Lich King, Commander of the Scourge.
Not only did Frostmourne immediately steal Arthas’s soul when he took it, but he also wandered the frozen wastes of Northrend being driven insane by Ner’zhul’s whispers through the blade for a long time after Mal’Ganis was defeated. The line between cult-like manipulation and outright mind control is incredibly blurred in this situation, but Arthas – in spirit – was dead by the time he returned to Lordaeron. The whole merging situation is bizarre and full of holes, but for all intents and purposes, both Arthas and Ner’zhul ceased to be and only The Lich King remained. Given his last words in ICC, it’s safe to say he had his soul (and original personality) back for a brief moment before finally dying.
i think he was mostly being controlled by nerz’hul/the lich king it’s just warcraft 3 portrays it in such a way where he seems to be doing it all willingly, he wanted to save the humans and destroy the scourge up until reaching northrend, it was only until he heard frostmourne’s whispers did he begin to change
Its nice to think Arthas was a good guy before picking up Frostmorne, but that would be false:
Q: Can you please explain how “light” works? The lore states that undead are physically incapable of using the light, much like the Broken, but then we have Forsaken players casting healing spells, and Sir Zeliek in Naxxramas using pseudo-paladin abilities.
A: Without spoiling too much, we can tell you that wielding the Light is a matter of having willpower or faith in one’s own ability to do it. That’s why there are evil paladins for example, the Scarlet Crusade and Arthas before he took up Frostmourne
Arthas lost most of his Soul and the only remaining fragment(left behind to keep him alive) became a separate personality whispering in Death Knight Arthas’s mind.
Once that fragment was shoved into Frostmourne at the end of the Arthas novel the Lich King Arthas wasted no time in attempting the same stunt on Ner’zhul who being linked to both Blade and Helm was able to escape forcing Lich King Arthas to play on the guy’s guilt leaving Ner’zhul as a wail in his mind.
Lich King Arthas was probably only alive due to Ner’zhul’s Soul inside him which he couldn’t remove like he did Arthas’s own Soul. Fortunately for him Lich King Arthas was able to break Ner’zhul’s will enough that he could ignore him.
The whole reason Lich King Arthas was able to break Ner’zhul’s will was probably because Lich King Arthas was uninfluenced by any Soul while Ner’zhul himself was still one with his Soul. Lich King Arthas was a Sociopath unlike Prince Arthas and thus was able to play on Ner’zhul’s guilt while being immune himself.
Arthas was less evil than Kael’thas was as not only did he want to save his people he didn’t side with the Scourge until most of his Soul was removed. Kael’thas sided with the Legion with his entire Soul intact!
It all depends on what you mean when you say “evil.”
In Arthas case I would argue he was motivated by good at the beginning. Stratholme was the actual tipping point. He crossed a line, and it seems to have broken much of who he was. After that you see a fairly clear change in him. After that it felt less like it was about saving lives, and more about revenge. He kept saying it was to save his people, but that felt like a lie one tells oneself. I would argue from Stratholme till Frostmourne he was still trying to do right, as he saw it. But, he was consumed by rage and a desire to strike back at the one who forced his hand. He lost most of the qualities that make a person good. And he did some truly evil things. So, yes he was evil at that point. Just not as evil as after taking up Frostmourne.
I agree, he became into a good guy after he picked Frostmourne and almost single handly 2 plagues called humies and elfies, a shame he didn’t finish the job there
It doesn’t neccessarily imply that. It’s more of the matter of… "Father is my Kingship over? or “Father am I going to die now?” sort of thing.
Every single choice that Arthas made before he took up Frostmourne and the majority of those he did afterward was entirely of his own agency and choice.
If you read “Arthas” you’ll see that every bit of his personality as the Butcher of Stratholme and the Lich King has it’s roots in his monomanical personality, and his general increasing reluctance to listen to anyone.
Yea. Arthas was always an entitled, greedy rich kid with terrible decision making skills. His thought process in the culling of Stratholme should be enough to make that obvious. The Lich King’s Helm/Frostmourne didn’t replace his personality. It enhanced all the bad parts of it.
He willingly took up Frostmourne because he thought it would be the key to defeating the Scourge and Mal’ganis.
IMMEDIATELY upon taking Frostmourne, the blade stole his soul. He willingly killed his father and slaughtered Lordaeron at the Lich King’s (Ner’zhul) command. Ner’zhul commanded him to merge, however Arthas was strong enough to push him back in his mind and maintain control after the deed was done.
Ner’zhul made him do everything before they merged, and Arthas chose to do the things afterwards. The things he chose to do as Lich King were explained in Chronicle, he wanted to make an Undead world to be able to combat the forces from outside Azeroth (the Void, Legion etc). Though this is because he no longer had a soul, and the approach he took was the most pragmatic to save the world despite the fact it would damn all that lived upon it.
The reason he asked Terenas if it was “over” was because after Frostmourne was shattered by Highlord Tirion Fordring and the Ashbringer, his soul that was originally devoured was released back into his body along with all the others it had devoured (hence why Terenas showed up). The Soul of Arthas had returned and seen the madness that he had wrought. But because of the sins he had committed in life and undeath (remembered he slaughtered innocent mercenaries to keep his forces in Northrend), he saw “only darkness before [him]” and was most likely sent to the Maw.
He started going bad long before he had Frostmourne or the Helm of Domination. He “purged” Stratholme before he ever stepped foot in Northrend. Then, when he did arrive in Northrend he burned the ships so his men couldn’t return home, he killed all the mercenaries he hired, he killed the protectors who were gaurding Frostmourne, and then he killed Muradin Bronzebeard after Muradin and his men helped Arthas.
Long before all that Arthas showed signs of having good intentions but he was willing to bend morals for the greater good… not unlike Illidan. Uther would often correct Arthas and mentor him in effort to send him down a honorable path… eventually Arthas killed Uther too.
To answer your question OP, I believe Arthas willingly served. He intended to do good but he lost himself along the way.
Well, yes. Guess what, good people have flaws. And he was…
But, early on he was really trying to do good. And I would argue he was good.
Look, even the best person has some bad in them. What being a good person means is that your good qualities temper and restrain your bad nature. And this was arguably the situation for Arthas. But, that changed. There was a point where his better nature started to lose to his darker impulses. I think it was Stratholme that broke him. But as his worse nature started to become more and more dominant he went from a good person to a bad one. I would say that he really crossed the line to being more evil than good at some point between Stratholme and Frostmourne. And then Frostmourne consumed all the last that was good in him and he was full on evil.
You have to remember that it was part of Arthas “humanity” that prevented him unleashing the Scourge upon the world. While his soul was still sent to the Maw i think it might be more due to the Jailer being angry with him than his soul truly belonging there.
I mean if Orcs or forsaken can claim they have no control of their actions due to corruptive outside influences and don’t deserve the maw. So could Arthas.
