Yeah that’s right. You heard me. DH should not be a hard s/t class. I think at best we should have the center of the tree buffed a little, maybe incorporate the 2-piece bonuses from the skybound avenger’s tier but that’s it. I have no interest in seeing this spec, already embarrassingly easy to play, becoming the default selection as every other spec in the game becomes 5x the effort for 0.75 the results. How many of you realise this is essentially what you’re agitating for when you complain about DH s/t? I am more than happy to only ever be above-average at best on fights like Terros (which seem to be the exception more so than the rule.)
No, what we need is funnel. If we’re going to tweak our builds for relevant content then one of our innumerable fire-and-forget cleave abilities should work as funnel. I always think of Ragefire in this regard, I know having more mobs in a pull is going to scale up the Ragefire dump, but for a priority target that needs to die faster it’s only ever going to take the same damage as every other mob in the pulls. Our damage profile is almost entirely indiscriminate cleave otherwise. You have maybe the first strike of BD, the priority damage of EB and after that it’s just weak sauce CS spamming. We need something that makes us unique and adaptable in multi-target situations. Personally I think Ragefire should be a combination active/passive ability. An active cast with no CD to dump the Ragefire charge on a single target, or let the charge expire naturally on everything. I know the math for configuring that would be a challenge but I’m sure something like that could be done. This is just one example ofc I’m sure there’s plenty of further potential, make Inner Demon into a s/t strike based on the number of targets hit by EB/Meta. That sort of thing.
Maybe this is me just hankering for the way SS/Evi used to handle on Sub before the BfA nerfs, but I think funnel is a woefully underused combat concept in class design, it makes encounters more interesting and has the potential to shift a lot of doomed specs out of the s/t/AoE binary. We should see more of it across the board. Starting with DH preferably!
Its funny how comfortable you feel being 10-15k dps below other classes on boss damage. Especially when there are quite a bit of fights next raid tier that will be mainly single target.
You claim we need something unique when momentum playstyle is completely unique and no other class has anything like it.
Its pretty plain as day that this far into the expansion weve had little to no adjustment to anything. The recent changes didnt even do us any good this last patch. The organization of our talents is so giga bad and make no sense.
Havoc as a whole is really on a poor state outside of multi target fights.
It was never meant to be hard ST, we are explosive AoE, the problem though, is there needs to be a healthy balance of not just AoE, but Single Target as well. And we have not gotten that since Shadowlands, hell before Shadowlands even, we were propped up with Borrowed Power.
Take the ring as an example, its doing 10% of my overall… Thats a prime example of borrowed power, propping up a class because the Devs cant do it themselves. If one item, such as this, get buffed, and makes DH a lot better ST, thats an issue. We should not have to continue to constantly go out, and get all these items that prop up our damage. The damage should just be there.
This is why I have been begging you guys to go to the damn 10.1 thread that was made, and voice your suggestions. I have been advocating for Chaos Cleave to be added as a talent or a baseline addition to Chaos Strike.
I am not just comfortable but thriving with this class not being tainted by the homogeneity of ability bloat and over-complication to the sole end of representation in top percentile content.
In fact, I would go as far as to say that havoc in its current incarnation is the best it’s ever been. If you crit on both BDs within your EssB window you steal the meters. The rest of the time you’re the benchmark for average s/t - as it should be - but the moment you have any one target up longer than 40% of the fight you pull ahead regardless. If you don’t know what the advantages of the spec are, for which your s/t is necessarily lower to offset, then that’s a problem with you, not the spec.
Did you not think the 2p from our current tier set evens things out with s/t? i.e. we’re not top on boss damage done but we’re easily competitive. I think so long as CS and BD are tuned in the way the tier set offers we’re basically fit for purpose. Being balanced around borrowed power definitely sucks, but just having the crit chance and damage bonus to our two biggest abilities doesn’t just keep us competitive but gives scaling with our most important stat. It seems like that’s all that’s really been missing, though I couldn’t comment on the math precisely.
I think the real problem with the havoc discourse is people get stuck so hard whining that we’re not topping the meters, they miss how bare bones the spec is otherwise. I’ve always loved how strong we are in almost every multi-target scenario, that’s why I play the spec, but we need to have a bit more dynamism to our kit, something that requires a proper value judgment to be made respective of the encounter itself. If everyone insists on complaining that filling every spare GCD with CS isn’t a top-5 s/t output then we risk getting that and nothing else.
People were literally asking for something like Essence Break.
I dont want to top the meters, I want to be remotely closer to other classes in boss damage when it matters (especially if I spec into it). Other classes feel this way too such a WW monk, Feral Druid, Fury Warrior, etc. Other classes are doing 7-10k DPS more than us.
I want the graphic to look how it does on multi-target/aoe for ST.
Most classes are balanced across the board in that regard.
Since Shadowlands, we have advocated that we have never wanted the intent of being the very top of the meters, can we do it in Overall? Sure. But never in Boss Damage, or Pure ST.
Most of us just want whats right for the class, not to top meters, right now our class kit consists of Legion, BFA and Shadowlands abilities, that we call, a talent spec. This is not a talent spec, they literally took our iconic spells and abilities, pruned them (i.e. Eye Beam) and made it cost a talent point when it could have been left alone, and bring in something that was cool for the class or something brand new. I said it in the 10.1 thread, there is NOTHING, zero, zilch, nada, ništa, 아무것 아닌 것. NOTHING!!! innovative about Havoc in Dragonflight.
The 10.1 Tier Sets, doesnt make it any better, our current sets are better than that. We have gotten ZERO communication from ANY dev, about the state of our class or whether or not were gonna get ANY kind of change in 10.1. That, pisses me off.
some of the community was, others didn’t want to be bottlenecked into a colossal smash style form of gameplay that we now currently are and will continue to be until the ability is tuned/removed or the other options are brought up to par.