I cannot even tell you how many hotkeys enhance and ele need to use and when to maximize dps, and thats just pvp. If we have our damage split between so many abilities, why do DH get off with it tied to so few. Thats the true problem here
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More of an issue with enhance being bad than dh being good
9 Likes
Do you smell it?
That smellā¦ A kind of smelly smell.
The smelly smell that smellsā¦
smelly.
DH complainer.
What?
DH COMPLAINER! 
9 Likes
Perhaps, but this affects everyone else no? Is there anyone besides maybe arcane mages with so few abilties tied to damage
1 Like
Bm. I wish we still had wod dire frenzy.
Iām a veteran player of 10 years and I am playing the 3 button spec of bm. Your logic doesnt hold up.
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I am not sure. But I would rather us move to a world where more classes are fun to play intuitively than a world where the current good classes are more annoying and cumbersome to play. That is I want to bring up the ones that are down instead of nerfing the ones doing well.
3 Likes
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So because I play a 3 button spec, I donāt care about myself? Man, you are toxic. Glad I dont play with you.
1 Like
Carpel tunnel syndrome is real. Less buttons are not always bad
3 Likes
In my case, the hunter is the only class I like for long periods and I really only find bm fun to play. I play bm because I dont want to torture myself or abandon my favorite toon.
Compared to what? My rets damage mostly comes from templars verdict or divine storm. They are easily 30+ % of my damage while everything else is 7% or below.
Compared to my DH, where they damage is more evenly split. Focusing iris, eye beams, annihilation, death sweep, etc all about even damage.
I really dont understand why people keep making these threads. Were not top AoE or ST, if we were then yea nerf the damage a bit. But i have yet to play a class where that i have to press more buttons than another.
Dh-5 buttons on average.
Boomy-5 buttons on average.
Warrior-4 buttons on average
Ret-4 buttons on average.
Ele-6 buttons on average.
Frost mage- 6 buttons on average.
These are just normal attacks excluding CDs.
4 Likes
Arcane mages may have their damage tied to a one button spam, but the spec still has 100x more abilities to use than a DH who canāt even fill out a single action bar.
Yeah but itās a 40 apm spec that presses 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 most of the time and the DH meta builds all go around 80 apm presses since of the +120% azerite hastes for 10 second buffs every 30 second. I think people focus too much on having one or two extra buttons to press over strategizing about when to stun, memorizing which abilities can be purged, and any dps spec is a cake /autofollow walk in the park compared to the massive memorization, routing, trash memorization and defensive memorizations and 30 some odd perfect 100.02%, not 99.899% trash pulls tanks are supposed to memorize.
If you want a hard in demand role with lots of responsibilities and thinking, Tanks are designed in such a way that even college professors can be stumped, while dps specs and arcane mages are (literally) designed to be played by children, the elderly and be accessible while mmos that tried to capture the 1% like wildstar found themselves dying.
A spec shouldnāt be trying to kill you, it should be trying to give you tools to overcome the encounter, learn, and get better.
HoW, ES, DS (plus EP proc), Crusade (once every 65s if neck level 83ish+one LD trait)/Inquistion (up to 45s), BoJ, TV, Judgment, and CS.
What are you on about?
If you are seriously about adding more complexity though, i would be more than happy to suggest Spirit bomb and fracture from the Tank spec, minus the land spawning healing soul shards.
You could still give soul fractures as a mechanic to cast it and have the spawn of shards come out and retool it to work, but itās a pretty solid abilty. Then you could also take that weird 45 second cooldown that makes chaos strike deal 40% more damage for 10 seconds, retool it to be part of the base kit for burst windows, and then with the leech button retool the meta leech to only apply to the 3 minute cd as a strong 50% leech cd, not a baseline ability that activates every 30 seconds.
i would be fine with that if we were gonna force something but ādelete a class cause itās fun and skilllessā when youāre not even pushing affixless 9s is silly.
The low button choice is obviously a obvious blizzard design choice though, with like obvious 1-3 PVE abilities stuck in the PVP talent bar for some reason and talent choices made. Sure the tank rotation uses like 12 buttons vs the havocās core Immolation aura + Chaos strike + Blade dance + Demon Bite + Eye Beam core rotation plus Purges/Silence/Taunt/Fel Nova / Fel Eruption sidebar and utility/tertiary buttons like Meta and sidebar abilities but i basically run my DHs on solid health potions whenever someone complains about me healing 200k in the middle of nowhere 200 miles from a bossā¦ next to a boss, sure, but 200 miles away, thatās a health potion and they think itās part of the kit too SMH.
Quite a number. Off the top of my head?
Blood DK.
Frost DK
Arms Warrior
Fury Warrior
Retribution paladin
Prot paladin(lot of cooldowns but rotation is simple).
Fire mage
Destro lock
Shadow priest
Balance druid
Feral Druid
The majority of the classes in the game use a simple rotation with on GCD cooldowns to enhance their damage further. People just meme o DH all the time.
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Almost all specs in the game can be boiled down to around 4-5 primary abilities on GCD or short <30 sec CDs. More buttons !=More difficult. Button bloat is a thing and doesnāt add interesting gameplay. Iād rather have a spec with 5 buttons and interesting synergy between them than a spec with 10 buttons that you just push because you have to. WW monk comes to mind of a spec that can have really bad button bloat depending on the spec. Check the logs, youāll see that most of the top parsers are now using the āsimpleā build for them now because itās more reliable and less annoying.
2 Likes
Anyways i feel like Button count vs APM presses vs lots of cds, low main use is a bit of a red herring of Misnomer anyways. I think itās following the old adage āEasy to learn, hard to masterā, but in DHās take, yes i crave high apm, button mashy content where thereās always something to do or interaction with the mobs.
Thereās lots of small things, like positioning yourself near to make sure your aoe hits as many targets as possible while also making sure you move back to cast eye beam to max your hits and iris to top your damage charts. I have friends who lamented all about dhs hop and get on one for a good parse, and then they flail around doing like 20k dps vs 55k on a 450 DH Despite help with the build and the logs show them just overcapping their rage 90% of the time, leaving empty gcds on blade dances and eye beams, funky talent choices and all sorts of weird things. I did my same the first week.
Iād argue the opposite is true. Itās also incredibly easy to hop on a DH to the novice or alt and think youāre doing everything right, but be wasting massive amount of gcds, wrong abilities presses, fury, single target eye beam hits and clipping abilities, missing mobs, and fel rushing off cliffs. Dhs are at the opposite of the end where itās very easy for a novice to play it, pick it up easily, but still play in a very unoptimized manner losing 50% of their dps without even realizing it.
Yes, for the record, the 2-3x larger button VDH of fractures and sigils and defensive rotation took me longer to learn, like two-three weeks while the Havoc took me a few days, but the time i spend trying to perfect the Havocs every single response to fury while watching mechanics doesnāt really compare to the gcd itself downtime of the VDH.
I consider the pulling and knowledge of dungeons tankings more stressful overall but can time tanking a 11 on vdh even with 3x 30k-40k dpses who walk into fire and buttpull, But i also get stressed out not having stuns as 2nd interupts when the other dps miss two interupts in a rows. I feel like i have more control on the Havoc Dh where im calling the shots where on the tank i feel like iām chained to their mercy. Both good, bad, and chaotic PULL 500 of EVERYTHING IN A BOLSTER AND LET THE MELEE DO ALL THE ORBS IN THE FIRE POGCHAMP!!!
but when im on a havoc i relish having stuns since it just makes life so much easier in M+ to be able to solo interupt a mob and then stun the 2nd iced spritzer and then be able to interupt again without that clunky 2 second wait on a sigil.
On the other hand once you figure out VDH thereās really not much to do since itās like i thinkā¦ 50-60 apm middle of the pack vs the 80 apm button mashing of the Havoc Dh and there are literally missing globals but 4-6 cd juggles and short spamsā¦ Iād think itās harder to learn but not harder to master and pretty easy to eventually, once learned play a optimized 60 apm multi button spec than a hectic easy to learn havoc spec that ramps up quickly. Thereās 25% less keypresses and dead gcds except for a 2k gcd glaive throw filler. Honestly the 60 apm spec feels easier and more casual to play and a break from the spec until i can have someone dump a 20 bolster autowipe run and typeā¦ āWhyā¦ just whyā¦ā
1 Like