I read the past 10 posts about how havoc is in a bad spot, but I dont run anything higher than 22s and i do really well. Im guessing that 99% of all havoc players dont even bother past the weekly 8 run of 15s and maybe 18s. I keep up with WW, and the only classes that beat me horribly are surv and destro. I keep up and beat warrs, fdk, mages, i mean we do really well compared to other classes.
Now i run a few 20s w my balance druid guildie and that crap is just sad. He is doing 9.5k overall, im at 16k… and we are both progging on mythic lihuvim. We have same gear, but to say dh is in a bad spot, we are not. Im avg top 6 in raid dps.
Yes sinful brand is our bread n butter. With it we avg 15to 17k in a dungeon. If you don’t like it, go fae, and do 14 but have a fun time with the spec using BD.
Russ on youtube just made a great video on how to enjoy DH. Ive been running it all week and love it. Basically 113 and first blood, with dwf conduit and increased scrutiny and darkglare leggo. You can BD your green heart out . Avging 17k while the surv and destro are doin 20. We are not in a bad spot, people are just unwilling to see that we are just fine and not the top dogs that we were in BFA.
So really well at 15-17k? surv/hunter/WW averaging much higher. Even rogue out dpsing us, and ret paladin in AoE. MM hunter demolishes us, Boomy demolishes us, basically every single class in AoE will put havoc in the dirt.
If you aren’t playing with good players then sure, you may not notice how poorly the class is doing, but just because you top a details meter against less experienced, or fotm rerolls trying to figure out their classes, doesn’t mean the spec doesn’t need adjustments.
running a sub par build, which russ makes very apparent also in his videos, facotoring in that it’s not a push build may be fine for you. You might be okay with that, doesn’t mean that everyone is.
We suffer from ZERO AoE burst. Like not a single button for AoE burst. BD hits like a wet noodle, we are managing a dot doing way to much of our damage to the point we forgo pressing BD in almost every situation. In raid this button is forgotton about and we spam demons bite and chaos strike repeatedly.
The class as a whole feels aweful to play unless you play subpar builds. We need havoc tuning to fix the dot damage carrying us, so that blizzard can tune our class properly so that outside of PURE SINGLE TARGET we aren’t a complete waste of space.
Havoc suffers greatly from having no niche anymore. We aren’t even just good at ST, were mediocre, we aren’t good at AoE, were actually really bad at it…And our entire ability breakdown is almost entirely AoE/Cleave based. We have been utterly stripped since legion. Havocs toolkit is basic, and blizzard only continues to strip that basic toolkit. We rely so heavily on borrowed power it’s insane, in part this is because blizzard refuses to actually tune our class rather than slight aura buffs here and there. Aura buffs don’t fix havoc and they know it, yet they won’t fix it’s baseline problems that need attention.
Hey beamzy, i agree that we suffer from borrowed power, but im 3100ish and i do similar dps vs most classes in 20s. People who run 20s arent crappy, they are usually 3200 amd 3300. For me, push is 23s, so I may have a differet view than someone who does 25s or 27s. But I really enjoy the class at low 20s, and i still get to blade dance. The biggest issue we have is a bad 4piece set power. It was redone from an empowered blade dance to just lowering our meta, i think if they kept that empowered BD we would have been far better off. Maybe if meta was lowered to 2min it would have been sweet in m+ for quick aoe sinful metas. Im speaking for the majority of players though, who run keys from 15 to 22. But even in higher keys, if you have a good team you can still perform in 30s, just the group prbly has to work around your aoe meta. Look at the third top dps, its a chinese havoc dh on raiderio. We arent crappy like ferals or boomies.
22s right now aren’t high though. That’s like below average for mythic raiders. I guess getting carried every key by OP classes doesn’t bother you, but it sure bothers me.
Only about 1% of people do anything past a 22… especially alliance. You have to take into account the other 99% of the population and their interests. 15s and 20s are what peope run. Im 3100 and like top 20 on my server…
To say that a 22 is a low key is to think in a very small box… there are many mythic raiders in my guild that are just ksm.
That’s accounting for RPers and people who don’t actually play the game. People who are actively playing the game all have 22s timed, they’re easy at this point. I mean if you unironically think DH is fine rn, that tells me everything I need to know.
Also, idk how to tell you this but 4/11M guild at this point is extremely casual.
As party of the other 99% I run my own keys and watch as I get carried by numerous other classes. I won’t mention those classes cause Blizzard’s all too often stupid response is to nerf them instead of evening the playing field by adjusting our class. I am below 20’s on most of my keys and still feel the stupidity of this class. UBC is so poorly tuned and the constant difficulty of running back to the group I just dashed through is ridiculous when VR could just not share a CD. Instead of having moments to Used BD I am better off just throwing down CS/AN both being close to pure ST.
The class sux and I’m tired of feeling like there isn’t one Blizzard designer that actually plays their game.
i have 3300 io its hard to find key vs others class, the 15-20 you can seel all clases actually its easy do keys in this rangue of dificult but you start try to do 21-22-23+ all pp lokking for 3 clases hunter survi destro lock and ww with the recently buf become the best choice have brutal aoe dmg and good single, the only way to be invited being dh is for buf casters becouse they want the locks do 30k overal or need some one ventyr for halls or sanguine.
when you put your key 22+ on finder can you see always be accepted the same class hunter surv lock destros ever same classses bcause all ppl know if you want to do 22+ better choice y selec this class for do one m+. if you look one war, rogue, priest or mague dps in the key you know you didnt accepted because the ppl only want this 2 clases for fill the team. but you see surv and destro in the key ppl prefer all clases over dh to fill the key xd.
Biggest issue we have is poor tuning (pretty much nothing asides from minor aura buffs, and have been ignored for the past many patches)
4pc doesnt help as its functionality is useless in amy content being 30 seconds off a 4 minutr CD.
Still doesnt fix the inherent issue being all of our damage coming from a covenant DOT, and the fact our entire gameplay centers around keeping up that dot with RNG resets on one ability cast over and over.
Meta is hardly an impactful aoe ability or CD if played around. Itll just get nuked before you have time to ramp the dot up for it to do damage anyways.
You do realize hes just there to buff his friends right? Not to deal damage because we dont deal damage. Viability by proxy having a magic damage increase for friends in a 5 man doesnt change thr fact hes there to buff everyone else even though he does no meaningful damage
No offense man, but it sounds like you played with some bad players that are underperforming while playing good classes and with that limited data surmised that the class is fine.
Doing tank level aoe damage outside of meta and a 3 minute trinket cooldown while practically every other spec in the game can do aoe damage all of the time is not fine.
Also while boomkin is also not in a great spot in dungeons, they aren’t sub 10k dps bad in what im assuming is decent gear. So thats another bad player that probably has no idea what he is doing and you’re using him as the basis of your argument. Stop with that.
No one is saying we are not in a bad spot in raid damage wise. Sinful brand playstyle might not be the most fun for everyone but damage wise its fine and no one is arguing that. It’s on aoe and specifically dungeons where we are in the bad spot. While your 15-17k avg dps in a dungeon might seem fine to you, most specs with equal gear played well will do minimum 20k+ And most of the specs that can’t do that at least have a different dps spec option in the class that is able to with most having multiple options. That’s not fine. When every spec in the game has two set bonuses and we have one that’s also not fine. When every bottom performing spec is being buffed or specs with weaknesses in certain areas are being buffed to bring them in line with their strengths while havoc is still being ignored just because it’s not bad in raid that is really not fine.
Please don’t go around saying the spec is fine and doesn’t need any help whatsoever just because you’re ok with it performing at a mediocre level because you stand out among the underperforming plays that you play with. If it doesn’t bother you that’s great, keep enjoying it. But don’t assume everyone else suffering does. That’s just so cringe.
The chances that you are somehow on to something and doing something special that the other 99% of people playing the spec aren’t is extremely unlikely.
You’d be surprised who in 20 keys shouldn’t be running 20s.
Thats … an issue, but not our biggest issue. Beamzy hit it on the head here and even I’ve been saying this, we should not have a Covenant DoT doing MORE DAMAGE THAN OUR TOOLKIT ABILITIES. That is the biggest issue.
Havoc isnt the #1 or #2 choice, its not a choice period. If we’re anything at all, we’re a 5% buff THOT. Nothing more. We’re not asking to be #1 we’re asking to be properly tuned, our Tier Set is garbage. Its best time you come around to accept that. Blade Dance and Chaos Strike still hits like a wet noodle despite the aura buffs we got, and Eye Beam does sub par damage. If your definition of “balanced” is being mediocre? Then I dont know what else to tell you
Youre complaining about something that is like a 6 months away.
Secondly I have 3, 1 is vengeance, 1 is havoc, and 1 is havoc on alliance, who wants to cov swap all the time.
Research? Speculating the sky is falling with no actual data nor any idea what will look like in 10.0 is just asinine.
Finally. You went and bumped a thread from 8 months ago, and posted in caps about it getting a blue response, can only imagine what u were like when you got corn flakes and not corn pops.
When there is actually something relevant to discuss, then say something.
No were not good Tails, we’re far from it, you are speculating that Demon Hunter’s are fine because of were middle of the pack, thats not what were mad about my guy, we’re upset because we have a kit that WAS designed to be AoE/Cleave, we no longer have that, instead we are pigeon-held to a single DoT thats doing >30% of our overall damage, and at all costs have to keep that up or we do tank damage. HOW IS THAT FINE to you?
If you believe that keeping a single DoT up is great gameplay hey, more power to you, go and play your 3 Demon Hunters to your hearts content, but the data, IS THERE, your just not looking in the right spot. No ability… NO COVENANT ABILITY, should be doing more then our actual class tool kit, not to mention if Verse is our BEST STAT, there is something SORELY wrong with the class.
We have a few iconic abilities, that do Chaos Damage, while the rest is Shadow, Fire and Physical. How about we make it all Chaos Damage??? Wouldn’t that make Mastery feel wanted? because right now its definitely not wanted.
Were upset because we have a mediocre tier set that does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, besides a 20% aura buff. and 30 seconds off a 4 minute CD, but thats fine to you apparently. Were upset because we have addressed these problems with Blizzard, and the Devs not even Kaivax can give us an actual BLUE POST regarding the ignorance that is Havoc Demon Hunter.
So no… Fox and Friends, were not good.
P.S. Someone else necro’d that post, so dont blame that crap on me.