Were losing half our abilities that are baseline right now and have to talent into them…this isnt what we wanted blizzard we wanted new abilities not another pruning
52 Likes
These talent trees are abysmal. Fun fact, if you’re playing unholy you have to sacrifice over half of the raise dead branch of the class tree if you want to get runic corruption/empowerment. Absolutely nonsensical design. Icebound fortitude being a talent, your INTERRUPT requiring a talent point. It’s embarassing.
31 Likes
Honestly for the first iteration it doesn’t look that bad, I don’t understand the complaints about having to talent into core abilities when at max level we will be able to talent into most of the tree, in addition to the most core of utilities being required to go deeper into the tree anyway. This is coupled with there being numerous talents that are dead for one spec vs others, for example control undead is a really really hard sell for unholy. I’m looking forward to experimenting with it and it does seem like it’ll enable some interesting playstyles and choices, in particular it seems like you can make unholy and frost surprisingly tanky, and blood gets a lot of damage options. I have some small concerns about less essential utility options being scary to invest in, read not things that you will almost always get due to how the tree is designed, but things like death pact and wraith walk.
8 Likes
This guy gets it.
Stripped down from we are now, yes. However you can build your spec, depending on numbers so many old playstyles will come back (Now if they are good… only future will tell).
11 Likes
As an unholy main, Ive found it pretty damn underwhelming even if it is a first draft.
Theres no ambition in it, minimal creativity and the illusion of builds by making you spend far too many points to recreate the exact same base template your character has now.
Why not have something interesting like choice nodes within improved raise dead where your minion can be specc’d into different routes? Or an improved all will serve with different minion options?
Why not instead of the very dry improved DnD, have a version where the ground effect has the chance/stacking buff to raise undead minions for a more pet oriented playstyle?
Why not have multiple diseases introduced into the tree for a complete rot spec?
This is a chance to reinvigorate the class, not keep things the same. At the moment, the trees are just not cutting it, at least for myself.
Here’s hoping they do something really cool with the class instead of keep it going in this direction
7 Likes
This isn’t another pruning considering you can get more talents than you originally chose.
2 Likes
I can’t believe how bad they’ve botched it. There was a chance to make more unique playstyles and expand the classes. Instead they just took our abilities and put them into the talent trees.
All the praise it’s getting is coming from people who don’t know anything about DK. Once they see what it does to their class I bet they’ll have a different opinion.
13 Likes
Honestly add a few bridges in the middle tier to connect them let you loop into frost talents without entering blood will fix this.
Only major problem I see is soul reaper being on the far right where frost mostly want access
1 Like
So few examples floating around on what y’all would do to fix it.
Can you really say with a straight face you want a 3rd action bar full of rotational abilities and CDs?
Or better yet, a single button press that has 7-8 different abilities, procs, and talents tied to it - most of which don’t get reflected in the tool tips?
Old talent trees had a incredible amount of flat % bloat, like 1% extra spell damage but you had to take it to get the abilities you wanted. These are a better iteration of the classic trees imho.
Recreating a balanced environment (what we have today) seems better to me than the crap shoot Wild West where we go through months of tuning adjustments to get it right.
The tree is fine, frost is in a good place, and we have a ton of aoe and cleave options in the new tree. I think they did a good job because I’m not going to get wombo combo killed by ret plds like I was in the BC prepatch years ago if this is what they’re doing with the trees.
6 Likes
This isnt an uncommon take but its flawed nonetheless. When you examine these talents you need to change the way you’re thinking about your class.
In the past if there were 61 decision to be made about what and Unholy or Frost DK was blizzard made 54 of them and left the remaining 7 to you. With this new system you have COMPLETE autonomy. This system is NOT supposed to be an extra layer of power on top of your spec but rather the DEFINING ASPECT of the character you play.
This allows “wrong” choices buts thats ok, for years people have been asking for the death of cookie cutter set and forget talents. This is a MASSIVE step in the right direction.
Want to play a frost DK with soul reaper? You can do that. Always wanted ERW on your Blood DK? That’s available now. Of course those come with sacrifices the amount of bloat that would be created by adding a whole 61 talent points to a spec while simultaneously making those talents impactful would be immense.
This system is a fundamental redesign of what it means to be X class vs Y class and promotes diversity and adaptation.
10 Likes
There’s always been a base toolkit for every class in the game. At what point do you think it’s too much? Should there just be no baseline abilities? Maybe rogues should have to talent stealth, druids talent their forms, DK talent death grip. Is that what you want? Do you want every class to start with zero abilities then have to pick, because the games NEVER been like that.
I don’t get the obsession with wanting to be able to make bad spec’s. Neat we can have a bunch of addons and weakauras to weed out players for content. First they integrated gear score, then raider io, now we can have talent io.
2 Likes
You get more then what you have right now. So many complain they have too go back into some baseline stuff but you also get many many more options and abilites then what we have now.
1 Like
Agreed, leave this to people that know what they are talking about.
2 Likes
Yeah I don’t get this at all, we have more options than what we have today.
Complaining that you can’t take every obviously good talent simultaneously in the trees is a design decision to encourage choice and reduce stagnation. It’s like me walking into a bakery and complaining my stomach is too small to fit every cake.
There will be a de facto best load out for every spec, and it will include the interrupt. The people who aren’t talenting into it are the same ones who weren’t pressing the button anyway today.
If you expected to get 8000 talent points and keep the exact same base kit we have today and have all of our leggos and conduits baked into the base kit then I have a unicorn to sell you. If you expected a company with finite resources because they have to turn a profit to postpone sale of a major title release because of a couple talents that unicorn is half off and you better buy now.
Very tired of these cry baby threads. If it’s the same for everyone then it is an even playing field. If we are able to maintain our rankings or anywhere close to them after the new talent release for all THREE specs then this is all whining for no reason. As a class, we have the best representation on multiple forms of content for each spec. They are all viable, and not just viable, desired.
We won’t know where the dust settles until we see the talents in action, and even then what matters is t1 of DF and we’re a ways off from that…
7 Likes
Leave it to WoW players to make the worst analogies…
2 Likes
It’s shills like you that impede the progress of design in this game. People have valid complaints, but you can’t overlook your raging hard-on for Blizz to understand how this can negatively impact people other than yourself.
What’s so hard about accepting that great for you doesn’t mean great for everyone else? I’m sure you will build whatever the meta is and go about your day, but some people are actually putting thought and effort into what their options are only to be let down by the honest lack of options present to them.
5 Likes
If you check my post history I’ve been very critical of blizzard. Dk scaling is a particular issue of mine that I’ve posted about multiple times.
As we are now blood is trash t1 and god mode t3, the kit plays that way to be viable in between. It’s a scaling issue with our kit.
UH has to see a 20% mastery nerf during t1 progression in SL when it was all over the beta forums that tuning was off, causing a ton of rerolls mid season.
Frost was middle to lower quartile of the pack for a significant portion of the expansion and it’s the tier set and cleave that are propping it up right now. Frost scythe is a dead talent with no meaningful application that has been around for how long?
I’ve been very vocal about balance, and how having classes push 40% of another class/spec in competitive content (MDI) is unacceptable and that margin of error in most fields would get you canned in today’s world. Why is it acceptable to ship it here. Either the bottom of the pack class tuner should get fired, or the guy/gal/whatever who signed off on survival and warlock.
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The trees are not the problem they’re being blown up to be. If you can’t take optimal or even objectively (not subjective or niche) strong talents to build a cohesive build, that’s on you. What matters is how we shape up to the rest of the roster and if we remain competitive. We don’t know that yet, and if every class is talenting baseline abilities than wtf is the big deal.
After the patch goes live and I click that point I’m done, that has no more decision making load on me for the rest of the xpac. It’s literally a click once and don’t worry about it again talent.
1 Like
You can save that talent setup and create another and swap between them instantly. So you can probably save several of them based on what you need given the situation.
Most will probably find that one build they like and stick with it the entire time even though you can have several saved builds so its REALLY not an issue when you can click on a few buttons and swap to a build for movement or resources or just a straight up dps check build, or one where you need some more survival, if you need more cleave/aoe or more st.
Some people had this fantastical idea of what the talent system was going to be like when we had a preview before the preview. People have set themselves up for disappointment.
This talent system isnt a big deal, people are also lying about it to try to create more disappointment like you would lose out on 10 other things if you wanted to pick up Mind Freeze… its getting out of hand.
1 Like
Yeah lets hope there are changes coming, because right now its not looking great.
6 Likes
Yes, they are. Unless you are like that one DK that only does WQs.
2 Likes