Gear grinding should not be a thing for pvp. Leave that to pve. The grinding for pvp players should be the rating grind, and the grind getting to 70. We’re at a place in time where people dont want to spend weeks just to be viable. Make pvp like arena tournament realms where gear is free, and it doesn’t take weeks to become competitive. The only people who enjoy the grind are the ones who have a lot of time for it, or the ones who have been around for a long time and dont mind it. There’s a reason pvp is dying and at an all time low, and the lack of casualness is the main culprit of that.
thank you for listening to my ted talk.
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The PvP grind is the main reason for PvP in WoW. Not just the gear, but the rewards too.
Problem is, it’s an RPG, not a game like Overwatch or League.
That granular character progression kinda has to exist here, otherwise it’s just playing for elo/ranking number.
Even those Vicious Saddle mounts are a grind, you just keep doing rated PvP until you finally get one. You don’t have to be a pro, you can get them quite casually.
And ofc, whatever rating you had at the end of the season, if it’s good enough, gets you another Vicious Saddle.
Pretty much all ‘goals’ in PvP are grinded for, and it’s an MMO so it makes sense.
Without the grind, I think PvP would actually be in a worse spot, more FoTM re-rollers and whatnot since there’s even less resistance to just making a new character, whatever’s most meta.
It’d no longer be an investment. The time/gear investment is what keeps people playing their ‘main’ characters.
The same thing would apply to PvE, if you just played through the raids/dungeons on a preset character and gear wasn’t a concern- it’s a big part of the game that’d be missing.
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There have been 3 kinds of instanced PvP in the game:
- Random leveling;
- Max level random unrated;
- Rated.
#2 used to be the big one. #1 used to be popular. I don’t know if they figured that making #1 & #2 less enjoyable and more pointless would mean an increase in participation in #3. But if that was the goal, it didn’t work.
So you think the total collapse of PvP is a sign this is working?
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You make it sound like gearing up for PvP is extremely difficult. If you’re in a hurry, maybe? And admittedly it has definitely become far more difficult after MOP Remix dropped. Ever since then epic bg practically never pops outside of prime time and even blitz takes forever sometimes. BUT BEFORE THAT, all I had to do was a couple of epic bg wins a week(when it actually pops it’s easy to get a quick win in ashran or Alterac), and the 4x play blitz quest/win 1 brawl.
Plus there is the 100 sparks quest which doesn’t even require PvP. Just go dig some disturbed dirt and pick up some expedition packs and you’ll complete it in no time. The bloody tokens you don’t need to fight anyone nor do crates(although you can, all you need to do is see if there is 10 ally there or 10 horde, it’s rarely something people fight over). You can just wait for the Ohn’…whatever-plains bloody tokens rare quest. He’s been up twice in two weeks, worth 800 bloody tokens. There is also other bloody tokens world quests but those you may end up battling others for.
All in all, it’s honestly shocking to see you claim that it’s not already casual. The only caveat I can give you is the drop in queues after remix came out. You can still do it during prime time like I do. Queue up with sound in the background and go do something else(I work in that time) until the queue pops.
And lastly, I personally doubt PvP is dying because of this extremely difficult grind(LOL). It’s moreso the fact that everyone is now a tank from Legion. Anyone remember tanks back then? People whined constantly about the random tank they’d run into(practically nobody played them). They’d say they were unkillable. Well, the tanks in Legion are basically what EVERYONE is now. Too much survivability. Too much CC. And there’s also the glaring fact that everyone’s zipping around as if this was a Korean MMO. I don’t even play hunters or casters and even I find it hilarious how easy it is for everyone to stick onto them.
On a personal level I also despise the PvP trinkets. I know I’m in a minority here. But I loved being able to pick my own trinkets, not be shoehorned into some dull set that everyone uses.
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mmorpg, not a rpg, sounds like something someone would say as a pver,
That’s purely because of the lack of content PvP gets compared to everything else.
It’s been what, 8 years?
Imagine going that long without a new dungeon or raid, lmao.
We’re getting our first new battleground since Legion, and most PvPers don’t like Seething Shore because of how random it is with Azerite spawns.
Those of us that remain pretty much are the diehard fans, casual PvP died sometime around BfA and SL incinerated the remains.
DF was a rough attempt at reviving the scene, Solo Shuffle worked fine for about a season or two before it died to long queues again.
BG Blitz is good fun, at least. And the queues aren’t that long, so people are indeed playing it.
TWW is another attempt, bringing in Rated BG Blitz as well as our first new, real battleground in a long time.
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the callapse of pvp is the result of players wanting single player games
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Absolutely not. I like having to put effort into something and feeling the power spike or a good challenge if it presents itself. FF14 tried that “play and play” model with premade template and where level / gear doesn’t matter.
Guess how that turned out? Absolute trash that nobody cares about for.
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Didn’t they try to remove gear mattering from PvP once before and it was one of the most hated things they’ve ever done regarding PvP?
They basically did that in Legion. PvP players wanted them to get rid of it.
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Yeah, that was back in Legion, we had stat-templates.
I actually didn’t have too much of an issue with it, because I was playing alts at the time, and I could bring a poorly-geared alt into a BG and still contribute pretty well.
Higher-end PvPers didn’t like it, because it reigned in their power and make them weaker, they couldn’t just blow people up lol.
Even if you were fully-geared, it’d only be like a 10-15% total difference. I think the legendaries played a bigger role with their special powers.
I understood both sides of the argument.
It was 1% per 10 ilvls over 800, which means someone who hit 110 then immediately queued for PvP was only 18% less powerful than someone in mythic antorus max titanforged gear, which was the largest theoretical gap in power.
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Yeah, lol, that just doesn’t feel good I’d imagine.
It was great if you wanted everyone to be competitive, and for PvP to be a skill based mode (also had the side effect of probably being the most balanced PvP ever was).
It wasn’t great if you wanted to over-gear and 1shot some noobs.
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Sadly I think that’s most of the appeal for a casual PvPer.
Hence why it’s gone now.
Yeah. There is a relatively small group who wants competitive pvp, but what war mode and the re-launch of PvP servers in classic has shown us is that most of the players who PvP want to kill players without any danger of being killed.
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Was there a cap on the strength of your artifact weapon? This is the one part I think back on and my memory sadly fails me. I feel like the versatility buff you randomly got scaled indefinitely. Or at the very least, I don’t remember hitting a cap.
This is not remotely true. PVP in that game has always been an afterthought until the CC update that remade the mode flow much more better in spite of a clunky server system. It has always been a mini game.
WoW’s pvp is a completely different ball game that poses a specific challenge of being seen as a valid gearing path in this day and age. It’s a core function of a faction system in a game where PVE is king. It’s a blessing and a curse since it ends up creating a whole separate player base that will never see eye to eye with others on the topic of certain changes.
not in MMORPG.
save it for battle royale.
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NO.
there are people who play casual pvp for gear you know?
Like myself.
I don’t pvp for rankings, in fact I don’t even do ranked at all.
and I’m sure there are plenty people like me.
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