Has anybody discussed that Uther and Devos bypassed the Arbiter and cast Arthas into the Maw? Was this before or after she joined the Jailer?
Yeah, it’s at the end of his 9.1 main story quest
After, she was already allied to the Jailer by that point
I think it was after she allied with the Jailer. At the very least, she’d turned her back on Kyrestia at this point.
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I’m still wondering what the Jailer said to convince Devos to join him considering her sheer freak out over a weapon of the Maw (Frostmourne) being outside of the Maw itself and on a planet like Azeroth.
Maybe that he used to rule the Shadowlands, that the current Arbiter is a fake, that his brethren betrayed him over a flawed design, that he will make it so that Kyrian no longer have to give up their Memories(of course that’s because he is going to use Domination on them so Memory Wipes are no longer needed), etc.
What he did not tell her was that he set up the system of losing Memories and is only doing away with it just so that he can straight up Dominate the Souls personally.
Devos was tricked by appealing to her Virtue of Loyalty which was what kept her from figuring out what exactly was going on with Zovaal.
Of course the Archon is also to blame for not publicizing the fact that Bastion including the bringing of Souls to the Shadowlands was running on Zovaal’s own system and that he used to be the Arbiter and ruled Tyrannically before the reign of the Machine that the Eternal Ones put in place after he attacked them for their Sigils.
Of course that much forthcoming might simply replace Devos with Thenios the Paragon of Wisdom as the corrupted Paragon. Wisdom would dictate to not let a Corrupt Tyrant’s Policies remain and to tear it down utterly no matter how well it seems to have worked!
Kyrian losing Memories as well as the very notion that Souls have a Time when they are “ready” to be brought to the Shadowlands are Zovaal’s System so both must be ended! Zovaal would definitely not be considered as an Ally and instead Thenios would seek more trustworthy allies like say: the Denizens of Azeroth.
Naturally events would lead to Denathrius’s discovery as a traitor and Thenios would pretty much be hijacking Bastion and Revendreth while either leaving Souls to rot within the Veil/Rift or letting the Kyrian simply revive them using the Soul’s own Anima if they desire it.
The Shadowlands would go from an Afterlife to a mere Cosmic Plane very quickly if the Archon was forthcoming about Zovaal and Bastion’s true natures.
Regardless of whether or not the Archon spilled the beans a Paragon was going to turn against her either way. The only difference was in which manner.
That hasn’t been established. We don’t actually know what the system was before the Arbiters ‘Purpose’. If I had to guess then the policy of erasing memories seems to have been something instituted by Krysta, not by Zovaal.
Also not established.
It seems to be given to each Kyrian’s own judgement as to whether they will ferry a soul to the Shadowlands or not. There’s no higher power that dictates a souls level of ‘ripeness’ to be picked to go to the other side. That’s why the memory erasing protocols were put in place by Krysta to start with, as a way to make the Kyrian as impartial as possible when it came to such snap judgements.
If anything, it seems to me that these measures are taken after the Arbiter was installed and Zovaal was overthrow , as the difference between the two according to Oriboses records was that Zovaal was more cruel and less impartial than the Arbiter.
Not at all. The Shadowlands is the afterlife bound to the material realm just as the Emerald dream is bound to the material realm. The Shadowlands are not and have never been the plane of Death - We have not been to a cosmic plane yet and have no idea what one might look like, or if the Shadowlands being more like them would be a good or bad thing.
My guess is the truth but not the whole truth. He most likely told her that he was the original Arbiter (this is true) and he was betrayed by his fellow Eternal Ones for whatever false reason he gave. They created the robot Arbiter instead. Devos does say that she was serving a lie. So my guess it was that.
But I still stand by my belief that Devos should not have been allied with the Jailer. Have the Forsworn be an independent antagonist force like the Drust were. Maybe after Devos was killed (or captured) at the end of Spires does Lysonia side with Helya.
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While I understand Devos’ hatred of the path, I was also shocked that she directly and intentionally served the Jailer.
All of this started because she was shocked that weapons of the Maw were being used on Azeroth. And then her response is pretty much immediately:
“Yeah. Ok I’d better join up then.”
I can only surmise that she had private chats with the Jailer in some capacity. He revealed his own unjust treatment and his plans (whatever they are). It’s possible he even lied to her entirely and told her some complete nonsense that she wanted to hear - it’s clear he’s already told Sylvanas and Denathrius two different things.
Sylvanas has of course been told that the cycle of death will be broken and thus everyone will achieve free will in some capacity, unlimited by the constraints of death. Denathrius was told that Death’s Influence would expand, and he would be some great ruler of the cosmos. So what was Devos told?
I suspect she was told that the entire job of the Kyrian was a lie, enforced by people who unjustly imprisoned the one who is meant to be judging souls. He probably told her that the truest service she could offer was not to enforce a corrupt and unchanging system, but to make it better.
Couple a message of betrayal (Against the Archon, who Devos was personally resenting) with a hope for a better future, and I can see why Devos might have made the choices she did.
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She had already taken several exits off of the reservation at that point.
Was she even aware that she was serving the Jailer, though? As I recall it was only her second in command who actually swore fealty to him, and was sending Kyrian off to be made into Mawsworn types behind her back.
Which makes her… less than bright, but not outright evil.
She literally says “I listed to the Jailer” in the dungeon.
Oh, well then. I guess Shadowlands has been even more of a fever dream than I thought. Carry on.
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“As I peered into Uther’s memories, what I saw shook me to the core. But you refused to see the truth. That the path is flawed. That we serve a lie. And so, I listened to the Jailer’s words. I learned of the great injustice you and the others thrust upon him… and upon us all. He seeks to free us from the prison we have built for ourselves. And for that, he has earned my loyalty.”
He told her that he used to be Arbiter and was chained and that “Death was never meant to be chained.”
Both Devos and Sylvanas believed that “Death was never meant to be chained.” was a statement that Zovaal would free everyone not “All shall serve me.”
Denathrius’s statement that the only power to emerge from the torrent of change is Death. Death and those who aided it’s victory.
Either that means that Zovaal is using Anduin as his main enforcer bound to his will or Death is an entity that Zovaal plans on becoming equal partners with.
I was thinking more that the story hasn’t really addressed so far that Arthas didn’t go to the Arbiter and was sent directly into the Maw. One would imagine that that’s going to be rather important, or am I wrong lol We’ve seen Nerzhul but not Arthas yet. If Devos was listening to the Jailer, he might have instructed her to manipulate Uther into taking him to the Maw.
What I gathered from the Forsworn is that not one of them had a full story of who they were working for.
It’s my guess that the Jailor played the part of the ‘poor innocent prisoner’ to Devos, and weaved a lie about how the Arbiter was the true source of the Maw corruption and that the system of the Shadowlands was keeping everyone bound in a cycle of servitude.
Lysonia was the one who appeared to throw her lot completely with Helya and the Maw.
Devos seamed to actually believe the Jailor’s lies but Lysonia seamed to have moved beyond that and embraced the corruption.
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I’m still wonder how the Jailer and Devos talked in the first place.