Devastation in Arena

Warning: long post

I understand this is a brand new spec and that it takes time for things to come full circle, however, i am here to help make that process faster and provide valuable feedback to bring this spec up to speed for arena.

After playing hundreds of games in 2s, 3s, and bgs collectively as devastation since beta, here are my suggestions.

My xp for reference: multiglad / 2700

25 yards is not working. It’s just not viable.

Empowered spells must be castable with hover, arena is too fast paced.

Fire breath dot damage needs to be buffed to compensate for the rank 4 nerf.

Hover needs to have a lower cooldown and be off the gcd like ice floes. 15 sec recharge seems reasonable.

Remove the mini global associated with glide as well.

Landslide needs to be 30 seconds with the talent. Frost nova is 30 seconds.

Quell range increased to 40 yards baseline

Improved defensives somehow, obsidian scales feels mediocre at best. Same for renewing blaze. The 4% talent choices for stamina and magic reduction should be baseline to free up talents for something more interesting.

On that note - the talent trees force you to spend points in a talent you dont want to get to something you really want.

Example: i want deep breath stun but i dont want leaping flames

There are no guaranteed ways to generate essence. Its all RNG or passive talent based which feels bad.

Azure strike and living flame should generate essence while having a chance to proc essence burst like it does currently.

Please consider my suggestions thank you.

21 Likes

I don’t have the high level pvp experience you do, but I’ve never had this rough of a time playing a class and at least having fun in pvp. For me, the biggest stand out issue is survivability. Having to play so close but being so squishy is a really bad time. I want to like this class and I don’t want to reroll but I’m starting to feel like I’ll have to.

4 Likes

Ive only done bgs on mine but I agree with most everything you said.

25 yard range is stupid and doesnt work. Squishy class that has to hardcast everything for relevant damage (pyre and azure strike damage is mediocre). 25 yards feels simply like a punishment for 0 reason.

Sleep walk should be baseline, its evokers only hard CC aside from deep breathe talent stun which isnt really a stun because you are “stunned” yourself during its animation

Hover should be usable mid cast and also work on empower spells

Fire breathe should not be dispelable or have dispel protection

Minor nitpick but blessing of the bronze has a 15 second cd for…what exactly? Other class buffs like priest and mage buff are spammable giving yourself some purge protection so why does evoker the only one with a 15 second cd?

Opressive roar for some reason doesnt have the same targeting system like deep breathe/landslide does?? Why its it a super small melee only cone?

Unravel is such a cool thematic as an anti shield archtype but it so bad? Double its damage, increase its cooldown slightly to 15ish second, and make it so the shield overkill damage carries over to actual HP.

7 Likes

I’ll tell you what… I hopped in a few BGs as devastation today and it was a disaster. We need way, way more survivability considering we have to be in range of melee pretty much the entire fight(s). Love the class in PVE, but this is a trainwreck in PVP

7 Likes

Nothing would help, if they dont reverted the firebreath nerf first…

2 Likes

The last talent for each row in the DEvoker talent tree feels so underwhelming compared to what other classes have. Like the deep breathe stun for instance that should definitely be higher up in the talent tree and replaced with something more impactful. Our talents feel underwhelming and a lot should be baseline in my opinion. Second charge of hover should be baseline and the talent should let us cast hover while casting or something… idk this class needs a complete rework. Definitely feels rushed and incomplete.

7 Likes

the evoker feels like they wanted to make a heroic healer class but because of the way the game is they had to add one more spec. :confused:

3 Likes

I think the biggest issue with the spec right now is the talent trees. There’s just too much passive bloat and not enough interactivity. That’s not likely to change outside of a major patch though.

The mid-range thing can work, imo, but the mobility isn’t quite there in PvP. A third Hover charge would be my preference, along with CD reduction on Landslide and something to compensate for the highly counterable nature of upfront Disint cost + it being a channeled spender… a stopgap solution would be reworking the honor talent Crippling Force to be some kind of “dispel protection” where being locked on Disintegrate provides a buff/debuff.

I also agree that Fire Breath feels a little underwhelming post-nerf.

2 Likes

25 yard range is a recipe for getting deathgripped to your death in BG’s.

Doesn’t help the spec is literally the squishiest spec in PvP with the longest defensive CC cd’s.

And our self healing? Pitiful. Bloom heals for nothing, neither does verdant embrace, both together are like 30% HP restoration and you will never be able to get off 2+ second cast Living Flames that only heal you for 20% of your HP anyways.

2 Likes

Yea, random BGs are rough. I am nervous for arena. I imagine I will just be trained constantly. Even worse will be in rated BGs. How will we even fit into a comp? We can’t be a ranged caster, we aren’t strong enough to be up front in team fight, and I don’t feel confident to base sit. It will be interesting.

I’m not even 70 on my Evoker yet, but I did a random level 60+ BG as Destruction and it was so bad it made me reconsider the class even as an alt. Obviously that’s not a serious way to evaluate any class, but the weaknesses of D. Evoker immediately stand out when you go into a PvP scenario (lack of range, way too many long CDs, felt like paper.)

Yeah, after the “one shot build” nerf Devastation definitely feels underwhelming, especially with big players in the game like Warrior’s infinite stuns and snares, DHs absurd damage and warlock’s general immortality.

I only feel like I only have damage during Dragon Rage, similar to a Paladin and wings… Except I don’t have the survivability to survive until the next Dragon Rage. Emerald Blossom and Verdant Embrace are about as good as a shorter CD but two GCDs exhilaration, Renewing Blaze is only good when you are not being burst down but damaged in doses and Obsidian Scales as it turns out doesn’t help much when you are the focus.

Disintegrate being the main damage source too just feels bad, I don’t know, it’s not as noticeable in PvE since your rotation is more static but in PvP, having a channeled ability as main damage just feels awkward especially with the short range, quite a few times I found myself using it only for the ability to cancel immediately making me lose my essences and stand there confused as to why my character is not attacking due the enemy running slightly backwards.

Anyways, I think in general, Devastation feels lackluster mostly because other classes, even Demon Hunters somehow are stacked with cool effects, some are full of utility and survivability etc. In a way we got a vanilla design going right now, very simplistic and need to wait a few expansions before we start getting fun and strong, which is a shame too, because I quite like the sorcerer side of the Evoker fantasy, especially since mages are so poorly theme when it comes to gameplay, in my opinion of course.

I have a maxed out dev did some max geared arena games. The spec just feels like its missing buttons. Not enough mobility or utility for a 25 yard caster. All of your utility has really high CDS so once your 1 min snare\deep breath is done you kinda just get trained.

The damage is too much connected to flame breath dot procs. It can be dispelled so its pretty weak. Also disintegrate is one of the most boring spender spells in the game and doesnt feel good to press. Channeled spenders are just not fun.

I think the worst thing is the mastery, reverse execute is really bad in arena. I think the spec should get one single execute spell that makes up for the really bad mastery

3 Likes

This simply isn’t true. It’s Blizzard’s first attempt at this kind of design in WoW and you think that because the literal first live pass isn’t perfect the design is inherently untenable? There’s nothing wrong with the concept of the spec or its range. It just needs to have a kit which supports the playstyle.

Blizzard is far from the first to use the “higher positional requirements but with the kit to enable it” design. It’s entirely doable and very fun when it’s done well. Turning devastation into yet another generic caster would be a tragedy.

This also kills the spec design. They don’t need to be castable while moving at all. Arena is fast-paced but planting and casting isn’t an inherently flawed concept. Better that the empowered spells make you immune to disruption than be castable while moving. You could easily add it to Obsidian Mettle that empowered spells have its benefits at all times. Could even make it so with Obsidian Scales up empowered spells further make you immune to hard crowd controls. Would enable them and even add in additional layer of potential skill expression.

Point being, there are plenty of ways to support hard-casting instead of removing it. My suggestions are only a couple.

In what universe is this a reasonable starting position for a change? Hover has a 10 second duration, with a longer effective duration since you can start casting any length of spell as it’s ending and that spell is empowered by the buff. If you add in it being castable while casting other spells and off the GCD (which I agree with) then its effective duration is even longer yet. A 15 second recharge would be an absurd jump from 35 seconds, and would specifically move it into the realm of of you choosing more when it’s down than when it’s up. Huge skillcap nerf to the class. Hover should be a resource to be managed, not a defacto passive.

What would be good to see, in addition to the GCD and castable-while-casting changes, is to have Hover gain an additional charge at the cost of some of its current duration. So instead of 6 seconds baseline turning into 10 with talents, with 1 (2 talented) charges, it would be 4 seconds baseline, turning into 7 with talents, and 2 (3 talented) charges. This would allow devastation to have more granular control over when it is up in specific. The spec would also just straight gain access to an additional dash portion of the spell, which would be a sizeable buff. If the ability needs higher uptime still you should be looking at something like a 30 or 25 second recharge time, but to jump straight to 15 would be silly.

Another suggestion I saw here that I think would make a ton of sense for this class is to have Hover make you immune to ground-based effects. Would make thematic sense and specifically help the class deal with the additional dangers of its stricter positional requirements.

Reasonable buff, but the reasoning is poor. Evokers aren’t mages and Landslide isn’t Frost Nova. That being said I would also add that Wing Buffet and Tail Swipe should have lower cooldowns. Also if Landslide’s cooldown is reduced it should probably also have a lower PvP duration given its range and width.

Feels like people are twisting themselves in knots feeling bad about Essence when it’s just a magic version of Energy. The only thing I think it needs is to have Disintegrate require 3 charges to cast, but only consume them as it deals damage rather than upfront.

They’re also not just going to wildly improve our Essence generation for free. Even if the spec needs damage buffs it doesn’t need “quadruple our Essence generation” levels of buffs. What you are suggesting would, without question, require massive nerfs to our spenders on a cast-by-cast basis. We’re already rewarded for higher uptime with Essence Burst procs, and while I also hate RNG making the spec more deterministic at this point is going to require more than one change. For the time being a more reasonable change would be to increase the proc chance by, say, 15% on Living Flame and 10% on Azure Strike, for a total of 35% and 25%, respectively.

Potentially. I think the main issue right now is how easily it can be dispelled when the ability that generates it is on such a long cooldown and the DoT enables multiple talents. I’ve seen other suggestions, but given the spec has just this one DoT and that’s it, I would rather see it just become a physical debuff. Ideally I’d like to see it turned into a Black spell and deal Volcanic damage as well, which would help justify its DoT being physical and also mean that Fire Breath would be linked to Deep Breath in terms of kick schools, instead of with Living Flame, Pyre, Dragonrage, Cauterizing Flame, and Renewing Flame.

4 Likes

I did a few hours of wargames yesterday with r1 players including Wizk and Jellybeans.

The damage felt pretty good.

The survivability was solid.

What felt bad was the lack of control and the long CD on utility. Outside of Rescue, I didn’t feel like I had much of an ability to peel for my teammates or support them defensively.

  • Off-healing is slow and weak without Burnout procs. Maybe Ancient Flame should also work on allies? LF cast time is frustratingly long.
  • Sleep Walk has a 15s CD but a 6s duration, which is more like 5s with the 15% reduction from gear. Buffing it for Preservation might be too much, but Devastation could use something to increase control slightly.
  • Landslide being 1m means almost every melee can break it pretty much every time without healer support.
  • I got some decent use out of Time Stop during Kyrian Spear and to prevent traps off of stuns, but it’s very difficult to use well.

Evoker has a lot of strong utility buttons, but many (Time Spiral, Caut Flame) are entirely situational.

Bringing consistency to the class would definitely help it find a home in PvP.

PS - Love the idea of an execute. Would make an awesome capstone or honor talent. Only useable under 20% but gains full benefits from mastery. Great idea.

2 Likes

yuuup lol did a few Battlegrounds i get tunneled and die. our Defensives are non-existent

Well they aren’t touching Evokers in the next round of tuning. Hopefully soon. Feels bad to shelf a hero class in this manner.

1 Like

Agreed on all points. Devastation has some pretty glaring holes in it’s toolkit. I have a couple things to add as well, and a lot of this goes for all PvP and not just arena:

• Hover needs a 3rd charge to bring it to the level of mobility the class was sold to us as

• The return spell for deep breath shouldn’t trigger a global cooldown

• Fire breath needs some form of dispell protection

• The length of an empowered spell’s cooldown should be relative to the rank that’s used. I.e. 12 seconds for rank 1 and 15 second’s for rank 3 etc. Without dispell protection you’re encouraged to use higher ranks and that’s not viable against skilled players and it’s very difficult to get any sort of pressure rolling.

Currently Fire Breath is just a mid-tier dot that’s more complicated to use than other dot’s of similar magnitude. I hope the developers can find a way to make devastation feel good to play because currently the whole rotation just feels wonky.

It’s hard to say what makes it feel so bad, maybe it’s that so much of our damage potential tied up in long cooldown animation locked or conoid spells and when you combine that with Living Flame being a bit weak for a long cast time spell you get whatever it is the Evoker is trying to be. I’m going to keep playing it for now, I think there’s fun here I just haven’t found it yet. I’ve heard preservation is good, I just don’t care about healing currently.

1 Like

I think they should remove the cast time increase on Engulfing Blaze and buff Ruby Embers to make it a viable pick.

2.5s is way too long for a filler cast, but there’s really no alternative.

Its hard because everything is bad lol. From the mastery to the utility to the mobility. Supertease just put it at the bottom of the PVP tier list, its swamp mode, preservation is s tier in his list so at least you can rock healer.