Greetings,
I hope this topic will assist the Dev's in some aspect of creating World of Warcraft Classic. Now i understand everyone has their own thoughts and opinions on classic and that is your given right, now here's mine.
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WoW Classic Patch Timeline
Firstly lets kick off with the timeline. In my honest opinion this should be a very simple process to think about but no doubt is hard to accomplish on the technical side. I believe wow classic should have a total of X cycles.
Patch Cycle One
Patch 1.1 & 1.2
Patch 1.1 -Raids: Molten Core and Onyxia's Lair
Dungeons: Ragefire Chasm, Deadmines, Wailing Caverns, Shadowfang Keep, Blackfathom Deeps, The Stockade, Gnomeregan, Scarlet Monastery, Razorfen Kraul, Uldaman, Scholomance, Razorfen Downs, Stratholme, Zul'Farrak, Temple of Atal'Hakkar and The Blackrock Depths
Patch 1.2 - Maraudon, I believe should be incorporated with Patch 1.1. Even though Maraudon can add a couple of BiS gear for raiders and open gold farming for certain classes, I believe the impact of Maraudon isn't great enough to trivialize the raid content of Molten Core and Onyxia's Lair.
The Talisman of Binding Shard should be added in 1.1 with MC. Once the item has dropped. Remove it from the loot table, replicating what happened in Vanilla WoW.
Faction-Linked Auction Houses and Linked flight paths should be added here. Some may see it as an early quality of life addition but would you ever want to delay these. They are annoying at least. They should of been there from the start in my honest opinion but each to their own.
The keying should be added here, see patch cycle nine for more information.
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Patch Cycle Two
Patch 1.3
Dungeons: Dire Maul, DM should not be released with patch 1.1 and 1.2. This will flood the player base with too much content which will decrease the timeline of classic. Not only that but DM has extremely powerful loot. The loot is superior to gear obtained in MC. Once DM has been released the reasoning to attended MC and certain dungeons reduces dramatically. Another backlash of adding DM with patch cycle one is world buffs obtained within DM. Having these buffs straight away will make MC extremely easy. DM MUST BE added after MC and Ony.
World Bosses: Azuregos and Lord Kazzak have the same effect as DM. If added from the start (Patch 1.1) It removes certain gear off the table for classes. They simply will not have the drive to go do certain dungeons or raids. Why add contend early that makes the player base skip vital pieces of previous content that you put effort into recreating.
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Patch Cycle Three
Patch 1.4 - The PvP Honor System
Patch 1.5 - Battleground (WSG/AV)
I personally believe these patches should be added together. They both involve PvP and synchronize well together. Adding this in Patch 1.1 makes it easier to obtain your 60% & 100% ground mounts due to the 10% cost reduction at Rank 3. The larger concern is the pvp gear that gets obtained via the honor system ranks. Adding this directly at the start will also make players skip certain raids and dungeon content as it will not be desired for once again, removing the need to do content you recreated.
Note that AB doesn't get added until 1.7. To me personally adding AB into patch cycle three isn't a bad idea as the rewards from AB Vendors isn't too powerful. AV and WSG are the most played bg's from what I've seen as well.
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Patch Cycle Four
Patch 1.6 - Blackwing Lair and Darkmoon Faire
This is very straight forward, each tier of raid should be on its own patch cycle. The Darkmoon Faire shouldn't be added until 1.6 as the trinkets obtained from the event are desired after. This is the start of "Catch up mechanics" that come into WoW Classic. An example is the Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon. Adding this in the patch cycle of one or two rather than the third will remove the need to farm previous BiS Trinkets such as the dual Mindtap Talisman from DM.
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Patch 1.7 -Zul'Gurub, Arathi Basin, Stranglethorn Fishing Extravaganza
ZG Should be released in the patch cycle four as its seen as another catch up mechanic. The gear dropped in ZG is far better than MC gear, ZG also introduces the Bloodvine and Devilsaur set which are insanely good sets.
Arathi Basin as stated above technically gets added in 1.7 but I believe it should be added with the other battlegrounds, I don't see any harm adding this into patch cycle three as AV is mainly where the BiS Rewards are at.
The Stranglethorn Fishing Extravaganza is an interesting event. Personally add this in patch cycle five or one. In my eyes it doesn't matter. Sure you can get + skill on fishing items from the event but that shouldn't affect the time to get to 300 fishing to make food for raids etc.
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Patch Cycle Six
Patch 1.8 - Dragons of Nightmare : Lethon, Emeriss, Ysondre and Taerar
This is no different to the patch cycle two Azuregos and Lord Kazzak. Adding these early just allows people to obtain better gear, earlier than they were intended to. Also giving people a huge time gap to obtain nature resistance gear for AQ. Players will burn through the content to quick simple as that, then the time gap where 1.8 was meant to be filling will be an empty void, unless the previous patch is shortened.
Abyssal High Council was also added. Once summoned, these small world bosses gave powerful blues. Seen as another catch up mechanic. This must be added in patch cycle six or makes previous gear redundant.
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Patch Cycle Seven
Patch 1.9 Gates of Ahn'Qiraj Event, The Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj and The Temple of Ahn'Qiraj. Once again these should be on their own patch cycle as its a tier of content.
Faction-Linked Auction Houses were also added in 1.9 but i personally believe they should be added in 1.1 from the start.
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Patch Cycle Eight
Patch 1.10.0 - High-Level Armor Set Upgrade Questlines were added in. This is the biggest culprit of catch up mechanics. Adding gear before it was meant to be added. Please see Tipsoutbaby's video on this subject, as he goes in depth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdy_uSbFZEY
#Classicast
Overall adding gear from this patch will make previous gear not required and once again skipping content that you (the devs) put your effort into. Why recreate such content if we're just going to be giving the opportunity to skip it. Don't give us this opportunity. Its the easy way out for both sides
Quest Experience to Gold Conversion at Level 60 was also added in 1.10. Now I believe this shouldn't be placed in patch cycle one, it should be kept in cycle eight. If put into one it will allow the player base at 60 to generate too much gold, too early. This makes it easier to obtain your epic ground mount before patch 1.4. along with other issues that are unseen with gold.
Weather Effects are something i wont talk about since we're using the legion client.
Linked Flight paths should be patch cycle one. Its a quality of life feature no doubt but its within classic's life cycle. I believe adding this make the game more enjoyable compared to sitting there waiting to click the next FP location.
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Patch Cycle Nine
Patch 1.11.0 - Keyring and Naxxramas added
Once again Naxx should be on its own patch cycle at its a new tier.
The keying is another Quality of life changed and i believe should be added in the patch cycle one. The only side effect this has is giving players more bag space. (Rather than keys being in your bag its now on the keying)
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Patch 1.12.0
Cross-Realm Battlegrounds were added. These simply should never be added in classic wow. It ruins the community and you lose the "World" of Warcraft. Always keep BG's within on realm/server.
World PvP Objectives. Now i believe these are the towers in EPL. Once captured they give you a small buff. These aren't a big issue in my eyes. To avoid this patch all together. They should be added into cycle three with the pvp honor system/BG's as it suits that patch cycle. Please leave feedback below if there's more to these pvp objects.
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Now i know the devs are worrying about nine patch cycles. I have a suggestion, im not saying i like this suggestion but its one way to reduce the amount of cycles required. Please see below of unmerged vs merged cycles.
Unmerged
Patch Cycle 1 - MC + Ony + Maraudon + Quality of Life Features + Legendary Neck + Patch 1.1 Dungeons
Patch Cycle 2 - DM + Azuregos and Lord Kazzak
Patch Cycle 3 - PVP Honor System + BG's + World PvP Objects
Patch Cycle 4 - BWL + Darkmoon Faire
Patch Cycle 5 - ZG + STV Fishing Extravaganza
Patch Cycle 6 - Dragons of Nightmare + Abyssal High Council
Patch Cycle 7 - AQ20/40 + AQ War Effort
Patch Cycle 8 - Dungeon Tier Sets Upgraded + XP to Gold Conversion
Patch Cycle 9 - Naxx
Merged
Patch Cycle 1 - MC + Ony + Maraudon + Quality of Life Features + Legendary Neck + Patch 1.1 Dungeons
Patch Cycle 2 - DM + Azuregos and Lord Kazzak
Patch Cycle 3 - PVP Honor System + BG's + World PvP Objects
Patch Cycle 4- BWL + Darkmoon Faire
Patch Cycle 5 - ZG + STV Fishing Extravaganza
Patch Cycle 6 - AQ20/40 + AQ War Effort + Dragons of Nightmare + Abyssal High Council
Patch Cycle 7 - Naxx + Dungeon Tier Sets Upgraded + XP to Gold Conversion
Now the merged timeline has cycle 6 & 7 merged. Just because these two have been merged doesn't mean the life of this cycle is reduced. The time should be cycle 6 + 7 combined together or the cycle of 5 should be extended to compensate the time loss on cycle 6. But this doesnt mean 6 will merger with 5 its just the time not the content. This allows players should still have time to farm their scarab lord title + mount as they did back in the day. Either way if cycle 6 is merged with 7 and time is given to 5 then players will have less time to farm Resistance gear for AQ40 which may make it harder.
Cycles 8 & 9 have been merged as well. All this will do is merge the catch up patch with the Naxx patch. So players have less time to catch up. But this patch should be released when 1.11 was released not 1.10 to keep the classic timeline somewhat long and to help the people getting through aq40 as the previous patches have been merged.
I know these are changed to the timeline but we have to sacrifice something and i couldn't think of a better way to deal with merged cycles than this. Since i heard the devs only want to do 4 patch cycles. I believe class needs at least 7. So im trying to meet them half way. The overall timeline of vanilla should never be reduced but the time lost in a certain patch due to merging should be put within that merge or another patch close by to give players a fair chance with the time that they deserve.
In conclusion, every new tier of raid should have its own patch cycle to keep progressive itemization in check.
Certain dungeons like DM and world bosses should only be put in the timeline when they were released back then.
Catch up mechanics need to be handled correctly to ensure the timeline of Classic wow is stable and isn't rushed through.
Classic wow can't be any less than 7 cycles or it will be ruined in many ways and mainly due to progressive itemization
Thank you for reading my post and please leave feedback if i have missed something. Sorry for any errors in this post. I would love to hear all of your opinions of my desired timeline if it must be reduced. I want the unmerged timeline but if we must merge patches then this is the best way to do it imo. Thank you
**Edit ** - Please read the whole post and clearly understand where im coming from as the dev's want to reduce patch cycles. That is all this post is intended at <3
WTF is this? read faction connected AH and was like 'is this even classic wow now? that was not tell way later in wow then during Vanilla, only neutral AH had that'
Do agree that all dungeons should be in and the raids are progressive but didn't they say it was going to be more or less like that?
Do agree that all dungeons should be in and the raids are progressive but didn't they say it was going to be more or less like that?
1.4 and 1.5 need to be separated
It's not as simple as "theyre both related to pvp"... these patches both had huge impacts on the world, and honestly 1.4 was sooo much fun, it would be a shame for people to miss that.
It's not as simple as "theyre both related to pvp"... these patches both had huge impacts on the world, and honestly 1.4 was sooo much fun, it would be a shame for people to miss that.
11/03/2018 08:05 PMPosted by BangnfireWTF is this? read faction connected AH and was like 'is this even classic wow now? that was not tell way later in wow then during Vanilla, only neutral AH had that'
Do agree that all dungeons should be in and the raids are progressive but didn't they say it was going to be more or less like that?
Faction connected AH means, all horde auction houses will be connected together.
All Alliance auction houses will be connected together. Before patch 1.9 they weren't connected together. For example Stormwinds AH was not connected to Ironforges AH. Auction houses will never connected between horde or alliance but within that faction from city to city.
11/03/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Bandulu1.4 and 1.5 need to be separated
It's not as simple as "theyre both related to pvp"... these patches both had huge impacts on the world, and honestly 1.4 was sooo much fun, it would be a shame for people to miss that.
Okay i can tend to agree to that, as the time between 1.4 and 1.5 will allow players to farm honor in the world = world pvp but technically they can have world pvp from 1.1 to 1.5 they just dont obtain honor until 1.4. But i definitely get where you're coming from.
The dev's were looking at doing the least possible patch cycles. If you watch https://www.twitch.tv/videos/331240032 they will mention it. My whole idea was behind this post was to show that we need at least a 7 patch cycle or more. I thought of the best way to squish it down but i could never get below 7 cycles or it would be completely ruined. I want 9 cycles just like it was. It was just proof that we cant join patch cycles together
11/03/2018 08:02 PMPosted by SemblanceDungeons: Dire Maul, DM should not be released with patch 1.1 and 1.2. This will flood the player base with too much content which will decrease the timeline of classic.
I have no problem with it releasing when launches, because im not going to skip over content because DM.
It sounds like your trying to turn classic into bfa with huge artificial time gated content because you think there's too much content.
I would certainly love doing mara while leveling up. Loved it.
I have no problem with it releasing when launches, because im not going to skip over content because DM.
It sounds like your trying to turn classic into bfa with huge artificial time gated content because you think there's too much content.
I would certainly love doing mara while leveling up. Loved it.[/quote]
Definitely not, i want classic to be classic the whole reason of this post was to show insight of why we cant just remove patch cycles and merge certain ones. I want to have all the cycles as they were. This was just to show the devs how far we possibly could reduce it by in my mind as they devs dont want to do 9 or 10 cycles they were looking at four! Can you possibly believe 4?
It sounds like your trying to turn classic into bfa with huge artificial time gated content because you think there's too much content.
I would certainly love doing mara while leveling up. Loved it.[/quote]
Definitely not, i want classic to be classic the whole reason of this post was to show insight of why we cant just remove patch cycles and merge certain ones. I want to have all the cycles as they were. This was just to show the devs how far we possibly could reduce it by in my mind as they devs dont want to do 9 or 10 cycles they were looking at four! Can you possibly believe 4?
I have only one question regarding progressive content.
I will say at the outset, I think it's great they're planning on doing this.
But what of a player in 5 years time who would wish to play then? They would be introduced to the game at the "last" patch level, and would miss out on this progression?
How would it best to be able to handle this type of situation?
I will say at the outset, I think it's great they're planning on doing this.
But what of a player in 5 years time who would wish to play then? They would be introduced to the game at the "last" patch level, and would miss out on this progression?
How would it best to be able to handle this type of situation?
Why release AV before AB? AV has better rewards. Also AV is much easier to get exalted with.
11/03/2018 11:55 PMPosted by ChristhinaI have only one question regarding progressive content.
I will say at the outset, I think it's great they're planning on doing this.
But what of a player in 5 years time who would wish to play then? They would be introduced to the game at the "last" patch level, and would miss out on this progression?
How would it best to be able to handle this type of situation?
Blizzard has almost certainly thought about this. Classic may well be running for decades. The obvious solution is to merge dead servers and open up fresh start servers every year or two.
1.4 isn't nearly as fun as you think. The last pserver that did this it was just 60s camping leveling zones and flight masters. Wpvp as you remember it from 04-05 is non-existent.
11/03/2018 11:55 PMPosted by ChristhinaI have only one question regarding progressive content.
I will say at the outset, I think it's great they're planning on doing this.
But what of a player in 5 years time who would wish to play then? They would be introduced to the game at the "last" patch level, and would miss out on this progression?
How would it best to be able to handle this type of situation?
This is why they must move onto The Burning Crusade or have new servers releasing each year or so.
11/03/2018 11:55 PMPosted by EmicklenryWhy release AV before AB? AV has better rewards. Also AV is much easier to get exalted with.
Because if you're trying to follow the patch cycle as close as possible, AV and WSG Get launched in 1.5 where AB launches in 1.7 so all i done was move AB forward two cycles. I never moved AV, AV will always come out when it was intended to.
11/04/2018 12:00 AMPosted by Coniferous
Blizzard has almost certainly thought about this. Classic may well be running for decades. The obvious solution is to merge dead servers and open up fresh start servers every year or two.
This is one of the reasons I'm against progressive patches, or that style of content release. Doing that while releasing periodic fresh starts creates too many versions of the season game. Idon't believe a vanilla experience is even possible. The vanilla experience was experiencing vanilla. That has happened already. There is nothing blizzard can do to prevent tryhards from killing rag and ony within 2 weeks. Back then they had to learn how to kill them, we already know that. We know about everything that was released during vanilla. We just know too much to be able to "experience vanilla".
I've told this story umpteen times on these forums but I'll say it again here. Sometime around 1.9/1.10 blizzard released some fresh realms, which I rolled on because.i missed the AQ event due to training and wanted to see it. These servers were launched at the current content patch. I know AQ was gated, bit can't recall if BWL or ZG was. The honor system and all BGs were available at launch. Mara and DM were available at launch. It was fun, and it was vanilla. Honestly, had blizzard kept vanilla servers to begin with, this is what we would have got.
There is no need to overcomplicate things. DM or even pvp gear isn't going to trivialize anything when we are running 1.12. I'm all for gating raid content. I'd rather see the honor system and BGs at launch. People love to talk about vanilla wpvp....it just doesn't exist anymore in my experience. World bosses are the only things people actually fight over. The last pserver I played on started with no honor system....and nobody PvPed, pretty much everyone ignored the other faction. And don't even think about the honor system with no BGs, that was cancer. "Wpvp" consisted or players camping flight masters and 60s roaming leveling zones while dodging other 60s.
That new server that I played in 2006 started with honor and BGs, and it was a lot of fun. It actually slowed down leveling because many people would stay at 19/29/39/etc to pvp for a while for rep/honor. It was cool to actually use those lower level pvp rewards while leveling. Not sure if people would do that nowadays, but it certainly beat rushing to 60, which is what we currently do.
Just my experience and my .02.