Unless blizz offers some sort of ranged option, I don’t think the survival ranged spec is coming back. It would be WAY too hard to balance in the scope of the big picture. They already have enough specs to balance without making sure a subset of a subset of players gets to play the spec they had over 7 years ago.
We should embrace change and offer critiques to make the current spec more enjoyable. What could you offer to either make melee/mid-range survival like it is better? What would you do to make MM/BM more appealing to you that SV used to be?
These are the questions the developers probably want to hear more of. Not us players lamenting what used to be in the “glory days”. We need to move forward as a player base and as a hunter community.
The only constructive feedback for SV is making it ranged, end of story.
Tweaking the current version has historically proven to be an enormous waste of time. BM and MM are different specs to what ranged SV was so cramming ranged SV stuff into them makes no sense and only serves to make our options worse.
I don’t care what developers want to hear. I care about what they need to hear.
Honestly if blizz wanted to end this whole shindig about old survival implement that sht into the new talent tree of MM bring back some things if it’s that big of an issue nowadays
Cause honestly old survival doesn’t need a whole tree spec back
Terrible try at trying to be diplomatic. Ranged SV was absolutely an independent and distinct spec worthy of being its own spec rather than an extension of MM. It was a different fantasy and gameplay to MM. Trying to cram that into MM just means you get watered down MM and watered down ranged SV while melee SV takes all. This has always been an infeasible and unfair compromise. It’s not really much of a “compromise” either because the melee SV faction keeps 100% of what it wants while the ranged faction has to make more sacrifices.
there was already too many melee vs ranged. and they made 1 of the ranged specs melee. /confusediam.
nothing. absolutely nothing. MM/BM will never be what ranged sv was. ranged sv was the aoe sustained dot master. something that MM/BM could never even come close to competing with unless blizzard buffed them both to fotm. the only way to make it the hunter class more appealing is to make survival ranged again.
they are not glory days. it took years for them to get ranged survival to the level it was at during the mid>end of mop. it just needs to return case in point. nobody wants melee survival other than the 5 people that are actually playing it because and only because it is the #1 meta spec.
you put an option to play ranged survival and leave the melee there and watch the internal numbers. it will be 1000 to 1 for ranged survival.
exactly. which is way ranged survival should be brought back. there is no such things as a melee hunter. the whole aspect of a hunter is bows / crossbows / guns / traps. hunters dont have bombs… and in melee… lol too funny.
i dont care what anybody says… melee survival was a colossal fail. its time to face the facts and give me and others back our spec. i played ranged survival for years and it was taken away from me and left me with nothing. i hate mm and bm but was forced into those boring clunky specs with spit in my face from blizzard.
So what I’m hearing is that Bepples and Vishamani say that they’re quite vehemently hurt over “their” spec being removed and redesigned by blizzard. Instead of trying to help the other two specs appeal to them or to help survival appeal to them, they simply want to flail about angrily and rant at blizzard?
You can be mad about a spec being removed momentarily. But it’s been gone for over six years. And just because you “feel” like its a failure because YOU don’t like it or “think” others don’t isn’t a valid point.
Blizzard has the numbers on their side. Obviously a lot more people play the spec than you seem to portray. It must mean that a lot of people like it and play it. Otherwise why would they put time and effort into it? It is for sure a lot of fun. You just need to get out of your hurt feelings and look at it objectively.
Also to Vishamani’s point about there’s never been a melee hunter? Um you do realize historically in life and in-game there’s been hunters capable of melee. Hell there are even NPCs in the lore who are melee hunters. We need to move past the fact that RSV is gone and look to future of making the current specs better as a whole.
it will not appeal to us for the simple fact that they would have to make 1 of the 2 a sustained damage spec with dots.
every hunter i talked to on the forums, in game and people i know in life that played hated it. they are in the same boat of wanting ranged back.
fred, cal, doug and mary were the only ones that played it before blizzard buffed it to were it can do over 200k bursts and finish a m+ with 30-40k overall.
people (hardcore key pushers) play it because they wouldnt get a group in the mid to high 20s if they were in melee survival.
i am a native canadian. not a fake one. my family for thousands of years hunted buffalo, moose, deer, caribou, bear and basically anything that moves for food and we still do to this day. never did i try and take down a 3000 pound moose with axe or a bomb. sorry.
yup and they are both beastmasters so check that. and they are in essence not doing the attacking. they are standing (hiding) behind their pet poking with a spear while commanding their pets to do 99.99% of their damage.
there is no future with melee survival. the only true future is ranged. and if blizzard decides to nerf melee survival it will die in the pit of fire it deserves to be in.
I’m sure this is wasting time but you must realize that when you say “people that you’ve spoken to” does not equate to a fair sample size of the population. You need to remove your bias. Every post you’ve replied with has come of as vindictive towards blizzard and other hunters even “remotely” defending anything melee survival.
You and certain others will never convince blizzard to bring it back until you remove yourself from your own bias and opinions. You need to provide compelling and fair critiques of the spec. But you also need to prepare yourself for when and if you get let down. Because the odds are it isn’t and will never come back.
This is incredibly logical. It is a wasted effort though. Logic is met with dismissal by those who can see nothing but their own desires. It is a never ending loop of the same people saying the same things to themselves.
oh i am not holding my breath. i am talking as an experienced player about how ranged was superior to melee. how melee dont make sense. how melee dont flow like the ranged version did. i dont care what blizzard does anymore but because i came back to the game i do care about the game and would hate to see it die. which is what it will eventually do if blizzard keeps on making dumb decisions such as spitting in every ranged survival hunters face and making it laughable melee.
they can do as they please. i play every class. but ranged survival was the one i mained and lived and died in just like a massive chunk of the player base. these forums are dead. the game is dead. every tuesday at resets and even at the beginning of a new patch there is only about 1% of the amount of people on now that what i was used to seeing from vanilla > bc and even up to wod. and whose fault is this? blizzard! why? because of dumb decisions like making a spec that hundreds of thousands of players played into something they care nothing about.
the removal of 10 man raiding was another big hit to the population of this game and i can go on with their bad decisions but i kind of stay on melee survival because thats what made me quit and cancel all 6 of my accounts for legion and bfa. i only came back now cause the wife wanted someone to relax with and i got bored.
i was always be a voice for things i am passionate about. and if blizzard wants wow to continue to flourish then the dumb decisions need to stop. plain and simple.
Old Explosive Shot.
Main rotational nuke. Instant cast, short CD. Goes BOOM BOOM BOOM. Sometimes, goes BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM.
However they make that happen, whether as part of a Survival reversion to ranged, a 4th spec, a hybrid option in Surv or Marks, I don’t really care, I would be so happy to gain that feeling again.
Its FOTM and when its nerfed those numbers will drop by those that chase FOTM it may retain some that liked what the spec does but really that’s what it is. IMO Blizzard did this big change and now they want people to play it some do and love it. But blizzard wants to see the spec they really worked on to get some play by a lot of people so they buff it and yea it becomes FOTM.
I am trying to help Survival appeal to me (and all the others who played ranged SV and did not continue with melee SV, before you again claim that this is just about me) by making it ranged. You keep advocating for bad compromises that mostly amount to “melee keep all, ranged make sacrifices”. That’s not sufficient.
That’s not the only reason and you know it. Vishamani, Ghorak, Lazyguide, Yura, etc. and I have all given countless detailed arguments as to why SV should be ranged over the years.
To take one of them: what exactly does SV gain by being melee? It’s not the reason for the spec’s strengths right now. It’s a stark departure from the core Hunter identity and Survival’s own history. It’s a practical loss of capability. It’s the source of thematic and aesthetic confusion throughout the spec’s design. It’s a source for bitterness and alienation in the Hunter playerbase. It replaced an existing popular spec. It seems to me the only reason the spec is melee is to chase an audience of melee players who don’t play much of the Hunter class to begin with. So why make it this way in the first place and why keep it this way?
Hilariously naive argument. Blizzard makes uninformed and disastrous decisions all the time and routinely doubles down on them out of pride and spite. To think that any of their game decisions are driven by data and honest, unbiased analysis is a pipe dream. In melee Survival’s case, the spec is routinely very unpopular. This is NOT based on assumption as you seem to think but rather raid representation statistics. Even Blizzard themsevles have acknowledged the spec’s unpopularity.
The only patch where it hasn’t been one of the least played specs in the game is the current one, 9.2, which is largely because they bribed everyone to play it with one of the most spectacularly overtuned borrowed powers the game has ever seen. If we are at the point where the only way to get people to play this spec is to make it by far better than everything else then it clearly was not a healthy game design decision and it should be revised.
Vishamani is likely referring to WoW Hunters where it’s absolutely true. The class in this game was built around ranged weaponry. When you start from that perspective melee is a flat downgrade. Why on earth would a Survival Hunter, the spec ostensibly built around resourcefulness and opportunism, arbitrarily not use the most significant resource available to the rest of the Hunter class including a specless level 1 Hunter? It makes ZERO sense outside of totally warped perspectives of tokenistic uniqueness, i.e. “now because it doesn’t use a bow it’s a special snowflake!”.
“Making the current spec better” means making it ranged. Nothing else. It’s the single most issue-ridden and problematic aspect of the spec. There is no conversation outside of melee v.s. ranged. No other level of naive tweaking fixes it. You love this line because it sounds good in your head but in reality it’s the same desperate fencesitting nonsense as the rest of your posts.
This is from the other active thread. We have posts like this going years back detailing everything wrong with Survival being melee, but sure: keep pretending that none of that exists and it’s just us saying that we want ranged SV because we personally like it more.
People who take this fencesitting, tone-policing approach are by far the most obnoxious people on the forums. At least those like Toxiktraktor openly embrace the bad-faith trolling nature of their arguments.
Literally everything you ever post in SV discussions is trolling one-liners. You have no place to talk about “logic” here.
I bid thee welcome to the circus that is this forum. As you have probably deduced, there are 3 groups of people that exist here:
Team Bepples, valuing class themetics and identity that only Tolkien philosophers could appreciate. Perpetual participants of a 6 year old argument that RSV needs to return.
2, Team Metroid, who feel the current state of MSV is just fine. They like jokes and love to tell Team Bepples to “Get over it” or to “Move on”.
Team Middle ground. Often tries to bring levity and usually the voice of reason, but you will not find many of them here. They often attempt to offer solutions to RSV vs MSV argument, while also realizing that you cannot fight City Hall.
So, I have to ask. Were your great ancestor’s in possession of bows and arrows that could fire at the cyclic rate of a M60 machine gun? Better yet, did they have the taming capabilities to not only tame Velociraptors and Sabretooth Tigers; but to train such animals to hunt in tandem as your ancestors sought out the elusive Sasquatch, Wendigo, Aklhut, and Ogopogo?
If that last comment is a jab at using real life examples to back up WoW classes, note the fact that it was a response to Magnuslottie doing just that. Melee Survival is always defended with “it’s a primal Hunter just like our ancestors” while fighting alongside those velociraptors and sabretooth tigers and also throwing grenades.
I am jabbing at the idea that real life weapons and how they are used must be taken into consideration in a fantasy game. Be it from Survival hunters or otherwise.
Sure Magnuslottie said it first, but I’m sure Vishnamani can pick up on my sense of banter. If he doesn’t, well I’ll apologize to him later.
naw, i am just trying to point out reasons as to why it dont make sense in the aspect of real life. then in other post i try to point out reasons as to why it dont make sense in a fantasy game. then in other posts again i try to show the naysayers and hopefully someone at blizzard who “cares” about the future of this game, what they actually did when ripping a spec, so many people cared about and mained for years, from them.
beyond the bunch of us that spend time on these forums voicing our concerns about survival hunters, there are many in game that dont care about the forums, but i talk to them. i have been talking to them. and i know just about every hunter i talked to in game says they were destroyed when it got changed. some of them said they couldnt care less because all they play is bm but others that actually played ranged survival would just say “what can you do” they either just packed up and quit or they moved to another class, or they are happy in bm and mm right now. but they are not passionate about wow like most of us here which is why you only hear from us the most.
i personally am one of those people who quit when the change was made. as i stated earlier when legion released, i died. i log. i canceled all 6 of my subs. my wife canceled 2 of hers and we might of logged in over the course of legion and bfa maybe 6-8 times tops.
and to show the domino effect i had. when i logged i was a co-raid lead of a top 100 us guild. and when i quit about 60-70% of the people that was in my guild quit. because the guild fell apart after i logged. so because of this change blizzard not only lost me at the time they lost 6 of my accounts, 2 of my wifes and at least 14-16 players from my guild at the time. because they are all still on my real id and have not logged in since end of wod.
ranged survival was my spec. you can check me, i am ranked 32 in the world with my alt score. i have more alts than most people can imagine. but forget about that for a minute because what i am getting at is that i have tons and tons of every class and to me nothing compared to ranged survival. it was my spec. there were so many routes blizzard could of taken other than deleting the ranged aspect and making it melee. i mean classes get changed all the time like total 180’s but nothing ever like the destruction of ranged survival.
it was a bold move. a raw one. a down right insulting one. as a loyal customer since 2004 and being bought and sold on ranged survival and then having it taken away, that was nothing more than a slap in the face. and then again as a business owner, i could never see myself personally doing something like that to any of my customers. that is why i take offence to it. not to mention i live and breath wow and i want it to be successful for years to come. but if blizzard keeps flipping everything on its head every patch and xpac then it will not last much longer as the population decline has shown over the course of these last few years.
