Desolate Democracy

So like everyone else with a decent computer and/or playstation, I’ve been playing the living ish out’ve Helldivers 2. It’s fine if you don’t like it. Perfectly legal to have terrible taste.

But in that setting they’ve “Managed Democracy” which is a system that did away with pesky glitches like voting. Instead you’re asked questions and a vote is cast for you based on how an algorithm figures you ought to vote.

And that got me thinking.

If that’s not the Forsaken’s current government, shouldnt it be? Like on paper they’ve embraced liberty and freedom but in actuality they’re still shady mfers who react to the Geneva Conventions like it’s a checklist?

Idk I just want some neo Forsaken propaganda done in the style of Starship Troopers now.

Would you like to know more?

Calia is calling the shots by now its laughable to pretend the rest of the council has any power considering she could give away Gilneas with no cosnequences.

The only one who cares about Calia, in-game or otherwise, are her weirdo antifans.

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We didn’t ask for her. She was thrown at the Forsaken leadership to dismantle their identity and pull their fangs. All her actions are proof she never cared for the undead and only exist to give humans all their fan fantasies.

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No doubt you are referring to Faranell the Mad Scientist and Belmont(who… I forget what he did)?

Oh I wouldn’t worry about that. He doesn’t leave witnesses.

Doesn’t work all that well I think.
Way I see it the Forsaken are closer to 'nids than the Federation with all their aggression. Bugs dropped the rock on Buenos Aires and slaughtered that camp of Mormon settlers after all, like Forsaken attempting to genocide Gilneas for a port and turning the farms in Hillsbrad into fields of torture.

Yeah and Warden Stillwater was killed by RAS for that. The Alliance didn’t save those humans the Forsaken did.

After being goaded into it by the Federation so the Forsaken do fit in correctly there as a matter of fact.

Hey that was Garrosh.

You got a funny definition of saving in that case.

Pure headcanon.

Cope large enough to have been the asteroid the bugs flung at Buenos Aires.

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It was the forsaken who ultimately attacked and plagued gilneas. The forsaken don’t get a pass on that

Can’t really argue with somebody who’s job title is Warchief.

Plus kinda moot now that the Worgen and Forsaken are doing this;

Okay? It still doesn’t give the forsaken a pass for their actions. They choose to plague gilneas after being told numerous times not to use it

Son and/or gender appropriate denomination for offspring of mine,

The forsaken did not give one single heck about you or gilneas. Garrosh forced to their hand.

Gilneas.
Did.
Not.
Matter.
To.
Them.

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Which adequately explains why they resorted to Blight.
Against Garrosh’s orders.
Garrosh, who apparently so mastered them that they simply had no choice.
That Garrosh.
lol

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Is that even what happened? Because that’s not what happens in the Forsaken storyline. The Sylvanas book said otherwise. But then the Reclamation of Lordaeron said the Forsaken were occupying it.

Only for the Scarlets to have seized it offscreen at some point.

Lore isn’t exactly clear here.

No, it doesn’t.

You are correct they were told not to use it. Do you know why that was? Because Garrosh wanted them to die. He was purposefully tying their hands behind their back after sending them to their true deaths.

If they had refused to attack, they’d have been declared traitors to the Horde and full might of the Horde would have descended upon them. No one would have aided the Forsaken. Time and again the world has reminded the Forsaken that they are alone even when surrounded by so called allies.

Of course, this is just me probably making a more compelling story of the lore then the reality of weak writing and villain-batting.

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The blighting of Gilneas was part of Sylvanas doing things “her way” (along with the naval assault from the southwest and seeking to claim the Scythe of Elune to enslave and weaponize the worgen) in order to reduce Forsaken casualties, as Garrosh had been committed to just relying on the Forsaken resilience to damage to brute-force the invasion with manpower alone

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I am someone who legally has bad taste, so unfortunately I do not have much first hand knowledge or experience to go off of. So excuse me if my understanding is a little off.

If we really want to go with a dystopian route, I don’t think the Forsaken would be a people who tries to undermind or underhand democracy. Not because they care for an uncorrupted and pristine democracy, but because they’re a people who are functionally immortal, have no need to sleep, eat, drink, expunge the previous two items, and some nerd is going to go through pages and pages of bureaucracy and undermind the whole system. Not to mention the sick joy some nerdy bureaucrats and civil servants would get from filling out 20 forms, opening debate for hours and hours on end, and all the technicalities that come with it.

We’re talking so functionally dysfunctional its at Imperium of Man or the Central Bureaucracy of Futurama levels of bad.

“Loose slips might sink ships!”

https://www.prints-online.com/p/164/loose-lips-sink-ships-7219141.jpg.webp

“Someone forgot to check a box!”
https://www.cooperhewitt.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/1949-108-10.jpg
“Not one form skipped!”
https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:434/1*UvTjSpIbymNFoNhNWto6tA.jpeg
“Did you report to the correct committee?!” and the committees look worse than this this
https://i.imgur.com/yt5n7pP.png
While the people debating look like this
https://imgur.com/a/W8Wc8om

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I mean there’s no evidence of any form of democracy on this second Desolate Council. The first one had a democratic element, but as far as I can tell this one is a pure oligarchy; elite Forsaken leaders of various ‘departments’ have formed a council to lead their people forward. So I’d go as far as to say that they already are this (although the shady mfers depends on which council members you’re talking about, due to the clear diverse range of views on the council.) It’s not a democracy, it’s an oligarchy that attempts to represent a broad range of Forsaken viewpoints. Let’s have a look:

  • (Disclaimer: I’m going to go through them and use the terms ‘conservative’ and ‘progressive’. Please don’t yell at me, not everything relates to American elections, I’m trying to apply this to a Forsaken context. If you want to yell about Trump or Biden, do it elsewhere for Shadow’s sake.)
  • (Disclaimer 2: In the Forsaken context I would argue alignment with Sylvanas-era Forsaken thinking is “conservative” and alignment with ideals of pacifism and cross-faction cooperation is “progressive”. You could argue that conservative refers to pre-Forsaken Lordaeron, but you’d be wrong and this is my post so shh :stuck_out_tongue: )

Calia represents the “Old Lordaeronians” more than anything. The Forsaken, like those found in “Before the Storm” who really miss what they were in life and want to reconnect with that in some way. She’s also quite pro-peace and pro-Alliance. I’d call her a “progressive” in the context of Forsaken politics for this reason.

Lillian represents, I would argue, those who don’t strictly have an ideology but simply want a home. She emphasises Forsaken unity a lot, helps people come to terms with undeath and the changes it brings, as she struggled in that space herself. She’s more willing than some to work with the Alliance, but she’s shown herself to be ruthless and efficient in opposing them if her people need her to. I’d call her a centrist.

Faranell clearly represents the Apothecaries. Their ideology is simple, really. They want to have complete creative freedom when it comes to their creations and concoctions. I’d call him centre-right, in the sense that he’s not a hardliner and seemed quite happy to work with Calia so long as his demands were met.

Belmont represents the Deathstalkers, I suppose, officially (and maybe the Deathguard as well - as best as I can tell there is no specific military boss on the council). But ideologically I’d say he represents the old guard of the Forsaken. He’s a conservative; perhaps not to the point of OPENLY supporting Sylvanas (that doesn’t seem to be allowed xD) but he’s an old Forsaken. He distrusts and opposes Calia, he doesn’t want all of this pacifist nonsense, he’s ruthless, brutal and dedicated the cause, and I suspect many Forsaken RPers love him for it. He’s the staunchly conservative Forsaken voice, representing that vanilla era of vengeance and carving a place for themselves in a hostile world, by any means necessary.

Velonara doesn’t represent an ideology so much as she represents the Darkfallen - the undead elves in service of the Forsaken. Ideologically she is harder to pick. She’s a bit outside the “left-right spectrum” of Forsaken politics in that her views appear to be closer to Lillian’s - she believed loyalty to her people was more important than loyalty to Sylvanas. So I’d call her a centrist, but only due to lack of information of her actual views. Fundamentally she just supports the Forsaken, and her own people’s continued role within them, even after Sylvanas’ defection.


So yeah. The council is only “representative” in the sense that it represents a broad range of views and perspectives. It does not have any evidence of being democratic in any way. It’s an oligarchy - government by an elite few. And frankly I’m glad of that, I don’t really want to deal with Forsaken elections lol.

If they didn’t take gilneas he’d kill them