Deserting - Why Smite Got it Right

PVP Battlegrounds
1

I often quit WoW BGs; I rarely ever quit Smith arena matches. Why? It’s a formula consisting of multiple reasons, and Smite got it right. Let me explain:

  1. Balanced comps. But how? Smite has way more characters than WoW to balance, so how could this be? In both Smite and WoW, team composition and unification are the most important things. At the beginning of matches, Smite allows players to pick their roles, and this provides an opportunity for players to adjust their roles based on what other players pick. There is an advantage to picking a diverse team: often, the winning 5 player comps include one of each of the 5 roles: mage (ranged magic), hunter (ranged physical), guardian (tank magic), warrior (tank physical), and assassin (melee physical).
    This is more or less a wash since WoW does a much more minimal version of this by (usually) ensuring each team has one or two healers and the rest as DPS.

  2. In Smite, there is almost always a possibility of a comeback (unless one team is just flat out outplaying the other, or has picked a better comp). This is because Smite gives some perks to help the losing team before the game is lost. This is mainly due to the respawn system: the more points a team has, the higher its respawn time becomes. When points are even, respawn times are the same. This respawn time to points ratio can be balanced by the dev team, and when it is balanced properly, it creates a scenario in which many matches result in white knuckle comebacks. I can’t tell you how many times I felt discouraged, but then stayed and had a narrow 1 point margin victory due to this system! Thanks to this mechanic, you always have a good chance, and I think it actually makes the game more fun because you begin to associate it with these totally exhilarating experiences. A loss can be a win, and a win can quickly turn into a loss if you are not smart. Ashran had a similar feature, and the players in-the-know banked on it and stuck around because of it!

  3. Players can vote to surrender. Players can start two surrender votes (only after a certain amount of time has passed from game start or from the last surrender vote). Sometimes it is obvious that for whatever reason the other team is just dominating – maybe due to higher skilled players, better teamwork, or a superior comp selection. This allows the pragmatic losers two opportunities to petition their team to cut their time losses by agreeing to leave early with no deserter penalty. I don’t think it requires a unanimous vote, but a vast majority (maybe 4 of 5 votes I think). Some of you will groan at the idea, and some will like it. Some people will never vote to quit. I am very pragmatic, as are many other players; I would say that about 70% of my surrender calls are heeded. It’s totally democratic though, and 9 out of 10 times I will honor the vote if it gets vetoed and stay (unless we are just getting pummeled and/or the team is being toxic).

  1. Smite has an account wide deserter penalty. However, as with everything else, it is more nuanced than that. First offense of the night results in a small penalty (like a minute or so). Next offense goes up to maybe 5 minutes; then 15; then it gets big, like an hour. And the penalty is bigger for certain offenses over others (like leaving mid game). Actually I have no idea what actual numbers are – but I, and other Smiters know, that the penalty gets big enough that you will not be playing any more Smite that night if you leave more than once. You will basically have to play another game that night. I think after the first 15 minute penalty it goes to hours.
    The only reason this works, imo, is because of the other things they do to balance the matches (i.e. respawn time adjustments), that make it so you might just have a chance. That mechanic positively bolsters your fighting spirit and gives you some hope, while the global deserter policy negatively reinforces a punishment to prevent you from wanting to leave. They work together.

  2. Smite always starts you in a new match – It never puts you in the middle of a losing match. This is good, but I have to give a shout out to Rocket League for having the best policy here: While Rocket League will put you in mid-match, there is zero penalty for leaving early (which I love), and they immediately substitute deserters with a bot car (and they are actually reasonably good! I have, many times, seen a bot be the only scorer for a team). I think this is brilliant, and it keeps me happily playing Rocket League. If nothing else, I wish that Blizzard would consider back filling deserters with bots. I would rather have bots that don’t complain to backfill a losing game. I think it’s unfair to everyone to have to backfill losing games.

That was a lot to type, but I wanted to post it because many of the threads I see on here about deserting offer single pronged approaches that I don’t think would make a difference on their own. I think Smite really nailed it by implementing this multi-pronged approach and balancing it over time.

2 Likes
2

For those who didn’t get the memo on what game he’s talking about. It’s called Smite.

Goodsmite everyone!

3

this means less than you think it does.

there’s plenty of comebacks in wow.

this would get annoying, you can surrender on your own by /afking. tbh this is one area where wow needs to be updated, backfilling needs to stop. when enough players from one team leave, that team should just auto lose.

i play 1 toon. deserter doesn’t stop me from leaving.

and then players unsub and play something else.

this is something wow needs. yes there are backfills where the game turns around, and yes there are backfills into winning games, but those are not the norm, normally you backfill into an already lost game.

1 Like
4

Role/comp switching is kind of moot most of the time in WoW. Only a few classes could even switch to heals, and that would not only require that their healing spec was geared/set up, but obviously that they’d want to. It’s not like a Warlock could switch to heals. And tank role is so niche in bg’s I’d say it’s almost a non-factor.

I’ve never played Smite, but I do think that most of the issues with WoW PVP are rooted firmly in the community because it’s just so casual to just quit.

I do think that an increased/revamped deserter penalty would help a lot.

2 Likes
5

Which is exactly why I said, “this one is a wash”. I probably should have left that one out.
Anyways, my point was that it takes more than any one of these things.

Smite has plenty of casuals with a much lower level of deserters, so that’s not it.

6

I don’t know what Smite is but…

You make it sound like “casualness” is why some people choose to leave. But what does “casualness” mean? So anyone who claims to never AFK is “hardcore”?

Whenever anyone says “increase the penalty!” I think (s)he does not understand why most people choose to play a computer game such as this one. And if, again, the prevailing response is “filthy casuals,” I would utterly reject the opinions of those who have such a bias until they are able to return to the land of the reasoned and reasonable.

7

I didn’t mean ‘casual’ like casual gamer. I meant like casually leaving, ain’t no thing. You’ve been around too many toxic tryhards!

1 Like
8

Oh, OK! Yeah, whenever I see the word “casual” my hackles rise because some people use it/connect it to a derogatory concept they hold on to for years. Or at least I’ve seen it for years, and I hate it (the concept that “casualness” is bad). :cowboy_hat_face: (Also, two people liked your post so I’m curious what they were thinking when they read “casual”… some folks just like to bash on it…)

Anyway… I’m not sure people are leaving in such a casual manner? If they are and keep queuing for BGs they must have a heck of a lot of time to waste (queuing, leaving, queuing, leaving, and on and on…) I think people leave BGs because they don’t have a lot of time, and they’re trying to ‘min max’ the reward obtained for time expended. But the problem is that’s still basically just a gamble. It would be better for them if they went into BGs determined to try hard, play objectives, and win - rather than depend on the roulette of ‘win fishing.’

TL;DR, I think a reasonable revamp (good word) has been suggested by Bdm:
One AFK per hour (after that the penalty is increased by 15 minutes) ?

Whatever the case, people need to understand that if they desire increased penalties they will reap consequences:

  • longer queues
  • the real possibility of little to no positive impact on how ‘well’ folks play in BGs

[edit]
Oh, this other consequence is HUGE (almost forgot it!):
- increased abuse of the reporting system

9

most moba rules wouldnt work for wow especially when we are talking roles. Wow you are locked to one toon but mobas you can match your heroes to counter other heroes.

1 Like
10

@OP, wanted to add points 4 and 5 are very interesting. TBH #4 sounds like it’d be pretty difficult design for blizz to implement, but #5 should be doable. Maybe it’d even get the rabidly-anti-AI people to quit the game, which could be a good thing.