Demon Hunter 10.0 Talent Tree Ideas

These are my ideas for Demon Hunter Talents in the new tree coming in 10.0

Table of Contents:

1. My philosophy towards Demon Hunter talent choices
2. Demon Hunter - Baseline - List of all / common abilities for quick reference.
3. Demon Hunter - Havoc- List of common / popular abilities for quick reference.
4. Demon Hunter - Vengeance - List of common / popular abilities for quick reference.
5. Class Talents
6. Havoc Talents
7. Vengeance Talents
8. Class, Havoc, Vengeance Talent Tree chart (WIP)


  1. My philosophy towards Demon Hunter talent choices:

I wanted to put together a “fun” build for both specs as I managed to have a great time in Legion and wanted to not only try to get back to the roots of Legion for the DH, but to improve upon it and add several different playstyles for both specs…

I am aware it can seem way to OP or just doesn’t make sense. Trust me when I say that It was quite difficult trying to build a talent tree using the same framework that the DK and Druid have already shown off while recognizing the fact that the DH hasn’t been around for that long and as such, not much history to pull from and build on.

So needless to say, splitting the 2 spec talent trees into 3 (class, Havoc & Vengeance) while having enough abilities to fill up a 31/30 points + additional left over required me to get creative lol. Hopefully that creativity has captured your eyes and if nothing else, give a nice “what if” expectation we can look forward to and possibly add to when the official new DH Talent trees are reveled by Blizzard themselves.

But please, share what you like/dislike/concerns and also add your own ideas. I’d like to see specially what types of ideas people are wanting to be incorporated into the class as all I am able to find is what is broken and bad but not many specific fixes that will make the class play well compared to others but also be FUN lol.


  1. Demon Hunter - Baseline

  1. Demon Hunter - Havoc


  1. Demon Hunter - Vengence

Below are the abilities (mostly just the new and modified) as depicted in the Talent Trees.


  1. Demon Hunter Class - New Talents / Abilities

    • Insatiable Hunger
      When you consume any soul, all fury generation abilities are increased by 10% for 5 sec.

    • Haste (3pt)
      Increase your Haste by 5/10/15%

    • Agility (3pt)
      Increase your Agility by 5/10/15%

    • Demonic Speed (3pt)
      Increase your Speed by 5/10/15%

    • Critical Fury (3pt)
      Your Chaos Strike and Fracture Critical hits has an additional 10/20/30% chance to refund Fury.

    • Deceiver’s Fury (3pt)
      You generate 5/10/15 Fury each time you dodge an attack or spell.

    • Unleashed Demons (3pt)
      Reduces the cooldown of Metamorphosis by 20/40/60 sec.

    • Demonic Wards (Altered from original)
      Your tattoos reduce [magic damage taken by 5/10/15% and physical damage taken by 10%.]

    • Lingering Ordeal (3pt) (Altered from original)
      Increases the duration of Metamorphosis by 2/4/6 sec.

    • Fueled by Rage
      You have a chance to activate Metamorphosis for 5 sec each time you consume a Soul Fragment.

    • Demonic Senses
      Your Spectral Sight is now always active passively. But your stealth and invisibility detection range is up to 20 yards.

    • Cover of Darkness (3pt) (Altered from original)
      Increase the chance for you and allies to avoid damage while within your Darkness effect by 15/30/45%.

    • Darkest Hour
      You automatically trigger Darkness when you fall below 35% health. This effect can only occur once every 2 min.

    • Cadaverous Eye (Altered from original)
      Eyebeam & Fel Devastation cooldown is reduced by 20% when used during Metamorphosis.

    • Feast on the Souls (Altered from original)
      When you consume a Soul Fragment, the remaining cooldown on Eye Beam, Fel Devastation and Chaos Nova is reduced by 2 sec.

    • Demonic Lingering
      Any non-demon Soul Fragment you consume with grant 5% more damage for 10 sec.


  1. Havoc - New Talents / Abilities

    • Demons Echo (3pt)
      Your Demon’s Bite & Demon Blades have a 5/10/15% chance to strike again causing additional damage and fury gain.

    • Chaos Slash (3pt)
      Increases your Chaos Strike critical strike chance by 5/10/15%.

    • Critical Chaos (3pt)
      Increases your Chaos Strike critical damage by 3/6/9%.

    • Dancing with Demons (3pt)
      Increases your Blade Dance critical strike chance by 5/10/15%.

    • Revolving Blades
      Blade Dance refunds 20 Fury if it hits at least one enemy.

    • Balanced Blades
      Increases damage dealt by Blade Dance by 3% for each target within 8 yards.

    • Cycle of Hatred (Altered from original)
      When Chaos Strike refunds Fury, it also reduces the cooldown of Eye Beam by 2/4/6 sec.

    • Fel Perception
      When Eye Beam finishes channeling, your Haste is increased by 15% for 8 sec.

    • Fel Reaper (3pt)
      Eye Beam damage increased by 10/20/30%.

    • Chaotic Striking (3)
      Your Chaos damaging Striking abilities do 5/10/15% more damage.

    • Chaotic Magic (3)
      Your Chaos damaging magical abilities do 5/10/15% more damage.

    • Glimpse (3pt)
      Gain blur for 1/2/3 sec after using Vengeful Retreat

    • Ignite the Hunt
      Upon using Immolation Aura your weapon ignites causing your next Chaos Strike or Blade Dance costs 100% less fury and cause 20% more damage.

    • Fel Focus (3pt)
      Your Demon’s Bite and Chaos Strike critical strike chance is increased by 3/6/9% after attacking the same target for 15 sec.

    • Fel Elation (3pt)
      Your haste is increased by 5/10/15% for 5 sec after killing a target that grants honor or experience.

    • Indiscriminate Reflexes (3pt)
      Your Agility is increased by 5/10/15% for 5 sec after attacking a different target.

    • Furious Recovery
      Fel Rush & Vengeful retreat CD reduced by 1 sec per 40 fury spent

    • Fel Infused Veins
      While moving you gain 10% dodge. While standing still you gain 10% leech.

    • Chaotic Onslaught (Altered from original)
      Chaos Strike refunds 50% more fury and has a 15% chance to slash an additional time.


  1. Vengeance - New Talents / Abilities

    • Fallout (3pt)
      Immolation Aura’s initial burst has a shatters 1/2/3 Lesser Soul Fragments from enemies.

    • Feast of Souls (3pt)
      Soul Cleave heals you for an additional (20/40/60% of Attack power) over 6 sec.

    • Infernal Armor (3pt)
      Immolation Aura increases your armor by 10/20/30% and causes melee attackers to suffer (5% of Attack power) Fire damage.

    • Demonic Deflection
      When you parry an attack, the cooldown of Metamorphosis is reduced by 3.0 sec. This can only occur once every 1.0 sec.

    • Charred Warblades (3pt)
      You heal for 5/10/15% of all Fire damage you deal.

    • Feeble Soul
      When you consume a Soul Fragment, all enemies within 10 yards deal 10% less damage to you for 6 sec.

    • Elusive Demon
      When you consume a Soul Fragment, your dodge is increased by 5% per soul (max 5) for 3 sec. Each Soul has its own duration.

    • Sigil of Mastery
      All your sigils have 1 additional charge

    • Sigil of Souls
      Your Sigil rips out 1 Lesser Soul (max 5) from each enemy struck.

    • Razelikh’s Defilement
      Soul Cleave reduces the remaining cooldown on a random Sigil by 8 sec.

    • Fiery Soul
      Each Soul Fragment consumed by Soul Cleave reduces the cooldown of Fiery Brand by 2 sec.


8a. Demon Hunter - Class Talent Tree 10.0 (WIP)

8b. Demon Hunter - Havoc Talent Tree 10.0 (WIP)

8c. Demon Hunter - Vengeance Talent Tree 10.0 (WIP)

4 Likes

Def solid attempt. Its not easy picking apart demon hunter despite it only being two specs. Theres alot of interwoven abilities that have an opposite(like fel rush and infernal strike) or the same ability that works different(meta, immolation). Im stoked to see a mockup, and it motivates me to finish my take on vengeance and shared tree(dont play havoc enough outside of pvp to comment). So here is a random strangers opinion on your ideas

Baseline:
Shattered souls -agree
Torment - agree, dk and druid keep their taunt
Spectral sight -agree
Immolation- was back n forth on this, but makes sense.
Chaos brand- yup
Imprison- i see this going in the middle of the shared tree(will explain how i think three will work out)
Consume magic-middle of the shared tree
Throw glaive - i agree with your location.
Disrupt- id move towards top in havoc side
Darkness- i know people want this base, but i dont think blizz will let that happen. I see this going toward the bottom of havoc, with no crossover like your tree is now.

Things i would add to baseline:

Glide/double jump(i know they are not really abilities, but they are in spellbook)
Metamorphis(i like the idea of it being in the tree, but the more i thought about it, it would break both kits if someone just didnt choose it. I think this is the ultimate decision on whether or not a skill is baseline, or shared in the tree.

Chaos strike,fel rush, demons bite- this is the intertwinned shennagins i dont know how they handle. As a current fresh dh, you get these abilities. If you choose to swap to vengeance at 10, they swap to soul cleave, infernal strike, and sheer. Now the way i thi k they handle it is keep it base, and the top tree talents on the vengeance side is sheer(tippytop) infernal strike and soul cleave one row down.

Now thoughts on shared tree.
So first, i think tree will be way more restrictive. Each spec will have its side, and the middle to go down ONLY FROM THE TOP. You wouldnt be able to cross branch to the othe tree without serious investment in points. Its would be designed in a way where you probably wouldnt see any new abilities added from the other spec, because the center tree would be incentivising. How do you incentivise both specs to commit to their side, and steer them to go down the center? Easy, throw demonic at the bottom. The middle tree would also be meta enhanced for both specs, and the utility(imprison, consume) so you would want to go down it.

The last couple of things about filler tree is i think it will start with eye beam and fel dev(on their respective sides). That leave it kinda weird because what if you choose both options. And my answer is either have buff your current specs version, or a low power collective anguish. I also see elysian decree being vengeance tree, and i hope i dont see fodder to the flame unless they actually fix the ability.

The vengeance tree the couple things i will note, is fracture will still be a choice talent, and i think you missed some abilities currently have multiple ranks that make them stronger as you level. An example is demon spikes. Rank one just gives you one charge and armor mitigation. Rank2 gives you another charge. Rank 3 gives parry. (Maybe 2 and 3 are flipped) that is just gonna take a couple of spots in the tree.

Well thats it for now, ill take a more deep dive later.

4 Likes

First off, I appreciate you taking the time to have a look at what I am thinking and laid out. So thank you for that.
Second, Even better that you provided feedback as I REALLY like that lol.

Now on to my thoughts and clarification on my approach to these trees…

General thoughts

  • Regarding a lot of the multi point abilities. It is my intention to use those multipoint abilities to really put up a blockage if you will to prevent drilling down to the good stuff to quickly. But that I think is a symptom of just lack of real available interesting options. As I did not have as much difficulty when I designed my Shadow Priest and Priest Class Talent tree (Link below for reference).
  • Ranks of abilities… I was pondering over this as well. I wasn’t sure how it was best to handle ranks of abilities that “grant” an additional effect such as the Demon spikes having 1 additional charge and then having a parry aspect. Because if you look at the DK and Druid, the “ranks” are usually pretty basic of just increase the same thing more and not adding an additional effect. Therefore, the only logical step is to create an entire new ability node in the tree to support the additional features of the ability. Now begs the question… where do those additional abilities belong? Do they branch off right away from the core ability? Or do they appear later on further down the primary leg of the tree or off in some random corner elsewhere? This is something I am struggling with as my logical side wants to just branch it right away, but space wise, it just doesn’t work out when you need access to so many other things before hand. So then I think perhaps its the “medium” I am using (MS Excel) to create the trees which is not allowing me the movement as can Cleary be seen in the DK and Druid trees.

Class Tree

  • Baseline abilities such as “Double Jump”, “Shattered Souls” & Spectral Sight are abilities that I would think are given to you as you level before your able to access the talent tree. Because as a reminder, Blizzard stated that you wont get access to the talent tree until level 10 (similar to how it was in the past). That is a BIG deal. that means you need to be leveling for 10 entire levels (most classes at least) and have access to at least some sort of toolkit to continue on your psychopathic killing spree lol. So that begs the question… Where is the line between true “baseline” and “Talent” abilities. Now perhaps the Demon Hunter might start at level 10 and therefore is not impeded by 10 levels of a really basic toolkit? I cant recall what level they intend to start at when DF launches. But for the moment, I am not going to stress that much about it simply because there are just not many options to pull from / work with in building these trees.
  • After playing around with the Druid and DK Class trees, I noticed (more so on DK then druid) that with the amount of points you get to spend, the amount of things you get to spend on, and the things you would like to have that (especially so at the top half) you WANT to spend points in all 3 trees. Also, you CAN and I think its designed as a very “intentional” design to put points in other “spec” trees that are not your current spec. Because this talent tree is really a “class wide” set of abilities. The only caveat being that you are forced to pick the 1st talent of your spec before you can try the other(s).

On to your specific comments…

  • Vengeance - Shear vs Fracture… now this is an interesting topic. I had MANY back and forth discussions with a DH poster a while back when SL was in beta ( Xaedys) and he was very adamant about the primary issue with Vengeance DH stems from the Shear spam. The reasoning being that every other tank spec has a (paraphrasing from memory) Resource generating ability locked behind some way to prevent it from being spammed. Now we look at Shear and you can see its both generating Fury + Chance to spawn souls. So it results in you needing to smash that button constantly in order to get the Fury you need for Demon Spikes and Souls you need for healing or other big soul costing abilities. So what happens is that you start tunneling and forgoing pressing anything else because of your constant starving of both Fury and Souls.
    So now we look at Fracture…

Fracture
Replaces Shear
Rapidly slash your target for [(40% of Attack power)% + (80% of Attack power)%] Physical damage, and shatter 2 Lesser Soul Fragments from them.
Generates 25 Fury.

We can see that this does both generate Fury + Souls. But in doing so, it limits the rate at which you can both (4.5 sec recharge) and therefore you free up your time to do other things without worrying if you have enough Fury / Souls first beforehand and want to pull that slot machine lever just 1 more time hoping you get more Fury + Souls before you do something else more fun.

So with that being said, I have basically relented as it seemed at the time at least that the majority of people seemed to agree.

That is why Shear is not on my abilities List / Talents. That and it can be a baseline ability before you unlock talents I suppose lol.

  • The example of “consume magic-middle of shared tree” confuses me. What is the reasoning why this should be there? I ask because there might be situation where a DH doesn’t want Consume magic or rather… doesn’t need it and wants to spend a point elsewhere. For example… a raid encounter that had no need to remove a magical buff from an enemy… or the other group member will take on that task. Point being, It is there as an “option” and even though its on the “side” instead of the middle… This is purely the result of lack of shared abilities across the 2 specs imo.

    See, I would rather have each spec have its own dedicated column of abilities primarily used in that spec but with the DH, there is just a severe lack of those options. So as a result, I just decided to take a middle path as the primary / shared path and have the “optional” abilities be on the sides.

    This is much different compared to the way I was approaching the Priest as you can see. But I chalk that up to a lot more time / development has been put into the Priest over the years and that is/was my primary class until Legion messed up my Shadow and I retreated to the Demon Hunter for Legion and absolutely loved it.

  • Disrupt… again what is the reasoning for the movement? Is it because it should be accessible earlier and if that’s the case then I think its reasonable to have an interrupt at level 21 at the earliest. Because we cant make it too early as we need to not bombard the player with every ability under the sun. We want to gradually introduce them to each ability in order for them to understand and acclimate to that ability. Now having said this… the starting area for Demon Hunters have a lot of moments where you are doing a quest that results in obtaining an ability and so for the moment I don’t know how that will fit into the redesign and resorting of abilities so I will just ignore that for the time being lol.

  • Darkness - Yea I will admit I tend to agree with you. I think this is something nice and unique that a Havoc Demon Hunter only can bring. I think once again it was the lack of shared options that made me just put this in the Class tree. Ill find a way to move it into Havoc tree.

See this is the difficulty with the Class tree. It make it weird (to me at least) to show an ability you can take but… it literally does nothing for you because your spec simply does not have access to it. Now for example lets say your Havoc and you pick the Fel Devastation talent… from the beginning that just seems like it wont work… So if you just “add an effect” so when you Eye Beam then maybe another DH comes out and does the Fel Devastation (like the legendary effect). But then its not Fel Devastation is it? It has become a new ability altogether. So it results in that its pointless to put in spec specific abilities as talents in the Class tree. An example of how I approached this delima was the addition of the Cadaverous Eye Legendary effect. It affects both Eye Beam and Fel Devastation as so it works for both specs to choose it.

Cadaverous Eye
Anima Power
Instant
Requires Demon Hunter
Havoc
Eye Beam
Vengeance
Fel Devastation
cooldown is reduced by 60% when used during Metamorphosis.

Yea I figured mechanically that those 2 Covenants abilities are good options for one to pick as it will interact with your playstyle whichever spec your in. They might need to be tweaked but again… lack of source to pull from in order to fill out choices in all these trees lol. So I kinda just put both those in as sort of a “here… choose one… moving on” lol

Link to my Priest Trees…

Edit:

I have updated the Class and Havoc Trees.
Took some of your input and moved some things around.

Im still on mobile so I apologize for bad grammer and formatting.

So you have to remember that dh starts at lvl 8. We do the intro and start discovering abilities as we go through it. This is fine. My definition of baseline is abilities you gain through leveling(in this case questing), no matter your spec. Alot of these you will have before you can pick up talents(also why chaos strike, fel rush, and demon bite is "baseline:).

Agree, you will have some filler options in the shared tree thay you prob want avoid so you can pick up skills on the other side of the tree. This is apparent with mind freeze, chains of ice, and icebound. This is why they are at the top, otherwise they would “disrupt” the flow having these abilities gatekept toward the bottom of frost.

Ok this is my miscommunication. So how i imagine the tree is different than your concept. Personally i think they will take the tree layout of dk shared tree, and just make it demon hunter. There will be slight tweaks to to branching abilities(maybe more branching to “commit” to more things in your spec), but the “skeleton” of the tree is what i picture the design.

So in the dks middle tree, they have access to asphixiate, ams, amz, and deaths advance. Its not “required” to go down that tree, but most likely you want to because of all the utility you could gain. This is where i see consume magic and imprison.

As far as what else to put in the middle, honestly besides demonic, a talent choice with felblade(not sure what else, made extended immo?) , im struggling. I have some idea to increse meta power(like the ranks you see on live), but i gotta work more on it.

Disrupt- honestly taking a page from dk, just throwing it at the top toward havoc or something. Easy access to both specs.

Darkness- i think you are right having it in the shared tree. Keeping in mind the dk tree, putting it toward the bottom so vengeance would have to sacrifice the good stuff in the middle to grab it.

Yea ive seen tons of debate on this. Although i agree it feels too nice to not be basekit, i think that remaining as a talent as an “upgrade” suits it better. It a little more frustrating with it conflicting with feed the demon, but we survived without that talent for almost 3 full expansions. Dragonflight i imagine will open more options, and maybe we will see feed the demon on the table not competing with fracture. Circle jerking the dk tree again, rune strike turns into heart strike once you can be blood, so i assume demon bite turn into shear once you pick up vengeance. Then you have fracture as a talent choice in the tree.

It will be weird.i agree it does seem like it wont work. This is one of the issue im hung up on. what two abilities go to the tippy top and are default when you choose a spec? Without more skills becoming baseline, i think these choices make the most sense. Your right, when you are havoc and pick up fel dev, its not fel dev. But if it was fel dev, it would be weird for you to turn into a different demon to cast this ability. Same goes for vengeance. Which is why i suggest a lesser collective anguish.

Theres no easy way to go about it, and looking at the other trees, vengeance will start off with spikes on the shared tree(since the other two tanks are related to their mastery), and that i think that is more of a problem then fel dev and eyebeam.

Okay, so I remade a new DH and did the starting area to see what your talking about.
I haven’t done that area since like Legion Pre-patch lol. So the levels and memory were totally off. So I made notes on when you get abilities and from where and when and how you get the higher ranks and what they do.

With that being said… I have remade the trees and moves some things, removed some things and added some things.

I think overall its more aligned to what would be more relatable to the current game and how you acquire the abilities.

Class Tree

Havoc Tree

Vengeance Tree


Below are the abilities shown in the talent trees.
I will split into 2 major sections…

  • Brand new abilities / Radically different
  • Existing / Old abilities or slightly modified

Brand New Abilities / Radically different

Class Tree Abilities…

  • Engulfing Blaze
    Increases the duration of Immolation Aura by 30%
  • Shrouded in Flames
    Immolation Aura has 1 additional charge.
  • Ricochet
    Your Throw Glaive can now hit the same targets a second time.
  • Critical Mass
    Increase Critical Strike chance by 3/6%
  • Agile Cunning
    Increase Haste by 5/10%
  • Fel Soul
    Every Soul you absorb will increase the damage of your next Eye Beam or Fel Devastation by 10% (max 5)
  • Demonic Anchor
    Anchor your Demon within to an enemy for 10 sec.
    If you or your Demonic Anchor sustain a fatal blow within that time, you instead heal up to 30% and turn into a Demon for 5 sec. You are unable to harm the target of your Demonic Anchor. 3 min cooldown.
  • Fueled by Souls
    Your Metamorphosis cooldown is reduced by 1 sec each time you consume a Soul Fragment.
  • Binding Soul
    While you have Souls within 25 yards, you take 3% less damage (max 5)
  • Demonic Soul
    Every Soul you consume will increase the duration of Metamorphosis by 2 sec. and Demon form by 1 sec.
  • Soul Devourer
    Every Soul you consume increases your max Health by 5% (max 5) for 10 sec.
  • Critical Fury
    Your Chaos Strike and Fracture Critical hits has an additional 10/20/30% chance to refund Fury.
  • Demonic Lingering
    Any non-demon Soul Fragment you consume with grant 5% more damage for 10 sec.
  • Demonic Recall
    Eye Beam & Fel Devastation have 1 additional charge

Havoc Talent Tree…

  • Insatiable Hunger
    When you consume any soul, all fury generation abilities are increased by 20% for 5 sec.
  • Wide Eyes
    Eye Beam Fury costs is reduced by 100% and its cooldown is reduced by 50%.
  • Dance of Blades
    Increases your Blade Dance critical strike chance by 5%.
  • Chaotic Strike
    Chaos Strike critical strike chance increased by 3%
  • Elusive Blades
    Increases your chance to dodge by 20% for 3 sec after using Blade Dance.
  • Chaotic Essence
    Chaos Strike grants 5% leech.
  • Furious Recovery
    Fel Rush & Vengeful retreat CD reduced by 1 sec per 40 fury spent
  • Demonic Recovery
    Gain an additional 30% Leech when your health drops below 30% for 10 sec.
    This effect can only occur once every 3 min.
  • Fel Infused Veins
    While moving you gain 10% dodge. While standing still you gain 10% leech.
  • Indiscriminate Reflexes
    Your Agility is increased by 5/10/15% for 5 sec after attacking a different target.
  • Focusing Strike
    Your Demon’s Bite and Chaos Strike critical strike chance is increased by 3/6/9% after attacking the same target for 15 sec.
  • Fel Elation
    Your haste is increased by 5/10/15% for 5 sec after killing a target that grants honor or experience.
  • Dance of Flames
    Activating Immolation Aura will cause your next Blade Dance to sear the enemies with fire, causing 10/20/30% of the damage dealt as additional fire damage over 3 sec.
  • Ignite the Hunt
    Activating Immolation Aura will cause your next Chaos Strike or Blade Dance to do 20% more damage and cost 100% less Fury.
  • Reverberating Chaos
    When you critically strike with Chaos Strike, Targets in a cone in front of you (10 yards) take 5/10/15% of your Chaos Strike damage.
    This effect is increased by 100% for 5 sec after consuming any soul fragment.
  • Chaotic Onslaught
    Chaos Strike refunds 50% more fury and has a 15% chance to slash an additional time.
  • Flame Reaver
    When activated, while your next immolation Aura is active, it will cause any Soul Fragment you consume to empower your Chaos Strike to deal 100% additional damage as fire.
    1 min cooldown. Reduced by 1 sec for each soul consumed.
  • Soul Reaver
    When activated, the next 5 Soul Fragments you consume will empower your next Chaos Strike to deal 250% additional damage as shadow.
    1 min cooldown. Reduced by 1 sec for each soul consumed.

Vengeance Talent Tree…

  • Fiery Soul
    Reduce the cooldown of Fiery Brand by 2 sec for each Soul consumed
  • Sigil of Mastery
    All your sigils have 1 additional charge.
  • Sigil of Souls
    Place a Sigil of Souls at the target location that activates after 2 sec.
    Shatters 1 Lesser Soul Fragment (max 5) from all enemies affected by the sigil.
  • Rapture of Souls
    Each Soul you consume increases your haste by 5/10/15% for 3 sec.
  • Feeble Soul
    When you consume a Soul Fragment, all enemies within 10 yards deal 10% less damage to you for 6 sec.
  • Elusive Demon
    When you consume a Soul Fragment, your dodge is increased by 5% per soul (max 5) for 3 sec. Each Soul has its own duration.
  • Searing Claws
    While immolation aura is active in Demon form, your auto attacks are empowered dealing an additional 15% fire damage and have a 15% chance to shatter a Lesser Soul Fragment.
  • Shadow Claws
    Consuming any Soul Fragment while in Demon form will empowered your auto attacks for 3 seconds, causing 15% additional shadow damage and 15% additional leech.

Existing / Old abilities or slightly modified

Class Tree Abilities…

  • Disrupt
    Interrupts the enemy’s spellcasting and locks them from that school of magic for 3 sec.
  • Immolation Aura
    Havoc
    Engulf yourself in flames, radiating Fire damage over 6 sec.
    [Generates 20 Fury.]
    Vengeance
    Engulf yourself in flames, radiating Fire damage over 6 sec.
    [Generates 20 Fury.] Generates 20 Fury over 6 sec.
  • Solitude
    Increases your Fury generation by 10% and attack speed by 10% when there are no allies within 15 yards.
  • Unending Hatred
    Taking damage causes you to gain Fury based on the damage dealt.
  • Improved Throw Glaive
    Throw Glaive ricochets to an additional target.
  • Felblade
    Charge to your target and deal Fire damage.
    Demon’s Bite and Shear have a chance to reset the cooldown of Felblade
  • Bloodlet
    Throw Glaive bounces to 2 additional targets, and causes them to bleed for 150% of the damage inflicted over 10 sec.
  • Deceiver’s Fury
    You generate 5/10/15 Fury each time you dodge an attack or spell.
  • Demonic Wards
    Your tattoos reduce physical damage taken by 5/10/15%.
  • Consume Magic
    Consume 1 beneficial Magic effect removing it from the target and granting you 20 Fury
  • Soul Rending
    Leech increased by 5%.
    Gain an additional 10% Leech while Metamorphosis is active.
  • Imprison
    Imprisons a demon, beast, or humanoid, incapacitating them for 1 min. Damage will cancel the effect. Limit 1.
  • Lingering Ordeal
    Increases the duration of Metamorphosis by 2/4/6 sec.
  • Improved Disrupt
    Generates 30 Fury on a successful interrupt
  • Unleashed Demons
    Reduces the cooldown of Metamorphosis by 20/40/60 sec.
  • Demonic Appetite
    Chaos Strike and has a chance to spawn a Lesser Soul Fragment. Consuming any Soul Fragment grants 30 Fury.
  • Burning Hatred
    Immolation Aura generates an additional 30 Fury over 6 sec.
  • Awaken the Demon Within
    If you reach 50% health, you automatically gain Metamorphosis for 6 sec. This effect has a 1 min cooldown.
    In addition, the duration of Metamorphosis will be refreshed up to a maximum of 6 sec while at or below 20% health.
  • Fel Eruption
    Impales the target for Chaos damage and stuns them for 4 sec.
  • Master of the Glaive
    Throw Glaive has 2 charges, and snares all enemies hit by 50% for 6 sec.
  • Boundless Disrupt
    Increases the range of Disrupt to 10 yards.
  • Feast on the Souls
    When you consume a Soul Fragment, the remaining cooldown on Eye Beam, Fel Devastation and Chaos Nova is reduced by 2 sec.
  • Illidari Knowledge
    Reduces magic damage you take by 5/10/15%.
  • Demonic
    Eye Beam causes you to enter demon form for 6 sec after it finishes dealing damage.
  • Demonic Origins
    The cooldown of Metamorphosis is reduced by 2 min, but its duration is reduced by 10 sec.
  • Raddon’s Cascading Eyes
    The remaining cooldown on Eye Beam or Fel Devastation reduced by 0.3 sec each time it hits an enemy, up to a maximum of 20 sec.
  • Fodder to the Flame
    Your damaging abilities have a chance to call forth a demon from the Theater of Pain for 25 sec. Throw Glaive deals lethal damage to the demon, which explodes on death, dealing damage to nearby enemies and healing you for 25% of your maximum health. The explosion deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.
  • The Hunt
    Charge to your target, striking them for Nature damage, rooting them in place for 1.5 sec and inflicting Nature damage over 6 sec to up to 5 enemies in your path.
    The pursuit invigorates your soul, healing you for (Havoc 25%) (Vengeance 50%) of the damage you deal to your Hunt target for 30 sec.

Havoc Baseline…

  • Fel Rush
    Rush forward, incinerating anything in your path for Chaos damage.
  • Demon’s Bite
    Quickly attack for Physical damage.
    Generates 20 to 30 Fury.
  • Chaos Strike
    40 Fury
    Slice your target for Chaos damage. Chaos Strike has a 20% chance to refund 20 Fury.
  • Torment
    Taunts the target to attack you.

Havoc Quest Acquired…

  • Throw Glaive
    Throw a demonic glaive at the target, dealing Physical damage. The glaive can ricochet to [1 additional enemies][an additional enemy] within 10 yards.
    Blur
    Increases your chance to dodge by 50%
  • Chaos Nova
    Unleash an eruption of fel energy, dealing Chaos damage and stunning all nearby enemies for 2 sec.
  • Vengeful Retreat
    Remove all snares and vault away. Nearby enemies take Physical damage
  • Metamorphosis
    Leap into the air and land with explosive force, dealing Chaos damage to enemies within 8 yds, and stunning them for 3 sec. Players are Dazed for 3 sec instead.
    Upon landing, you are transformed into a hellish demon for 30 sec, greatly empowering your Chaos Strike and Blade Dance abilities

Havoc Talent Tree…

  • Eye Beam
    Blasts all enemies in front of you for Chaos damage over 2 sec.
    Deals reduced damage to secondary targets.
  • Blade Dance
    Strike all nearby enemies for Physical damage. Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.
  • Demon Blades
    Replaces Demon’s Bite
    Your auto attacks have a 60% chance to deal additional Shadow damage and generate Fury.
  • Improved Chaos Strike
    Increases the chance that Chaos Strike will refund 20 Fury by 20%.
  • Unrestrained Fury
    Increases maximum Fury by 10/20/30.
  • Improved Blade Dance
    Reduces the cooldown of Blade Dance by 6 sec.
  • Glaive Tempest
    Launch two demonic glaives in a whirlwind of energy, causing Chaos damage over 3 sec to all nearby enemies. Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.
  • Fel Barrage
    At your command, unleash Fel, inflicting Chaos damage to your target and nearby enemies over 2 sec.
    Your damaging abilities have a chance to reduce the cooldown of Fel Barrage by 5 sec.
  • Balanced Blades
    Increases damage dealt by Blade Dance by 2/4/6% for each target within 8 yards.
  • Fanatical Demon
    Increased Haste by 25% while in Metamorphosis.
  • Warglaives of Chaos
    Chaos Strike damage increased by 5/10/15%.
  • Critical Chaos
    Increases the critical strike damage dealt by Chaos Strike by 6/12/18%
  • Blade Dancer’s Grace
    Increases the critical strike damage of Blade Dance by 20%
  • Improved Fel Rush
    Fel Rush gains an additional charge.
  • Improved Blur
    Reduces all damage taken by 10/20%
  • Chaos Beam
    Dealing guaranteed critical strikes.
  • Overwhelming Power
    Each enemy stunned by Chaos Nova has a 30% chance to generate a Lesser Soul Fragment.
  • Unbound Chaos
    Activating Immolation Aura will cause your inner demon to slam into nearby enemies at the end of your next Fel Rush, dealing Chaos damage.
  • Desperate Instincts
    Blur now reduces damage taken by an additional 10%. Additionally, you automatically trigger Blur with 50% reduced cooldown and duration when you fall below 35% health.
    This effect can only occur when Blur is not on cooldown
  • Glimpse
    Gain blur for 3 sec after using Vengeful Retreat
  • Improved Darkness
    Reduces the cooldown of Darkness by 120 sec.
  • Improved Vengeful Retreat
    Nearby enemies have their movement speed reduced by 70% for 3 sec
  • Fel Reaper
    Eye Beam damage increased by 10/20/30%.
  • Unleashed Power
    Removes the Fury cost of Chaos Nova and reduces its cooldown by 33%.
  • Netherwalk
    Slip into the nether, increasing movement speed by 100% and becoming immune to damage, but unable to attack. Lasts 6 sec. 3 min cooldown.
  • Blind Fury
    Eye Beam generates 40 Fury every sec. and its duration is increased by 50%.
  • Cycle of Hatred
    When Chaos Strike refunds Fury, it also reduces the cooldown of Eye Beam by 3 sec.
  • Visual Alacrity
    When Eye Beam finishes fully channeling, your Haste is increased by an additional 15% for 12 sec.
  • Renewed Demon
    Metamorphosis immediately resets the cooldown of your Eye Beam and Blade Dance abilities.
  • First Blood
    Reduces the Fury cost of Blade Dance by 20 and increases its damage against the first target struck.
  • Cover of Darkness
    Increases the chance for you and allies to avoid damage while within your Darkness effect by 50%. Increases the chance for you and allies to avoid damage while within your Darkness effect by 50%.
  • Darkest Hour
    You automatically trigger Darkness when you fall below 35% health. This effect can only occur once every 2 min. You automatically trigger Darkness when you fall below 35% health.
  • Momentum
    Fel Rush increases your damage done by 15% for 6 sec.
    Vengeful Retreat’s cooldown is reduced by 5 sec
  • Chaos Blades
    Increases all damage done by 30% for 18 sec.
    While active, your auto attack deals 150% increased damage, and causes Chaos damage.

Vengeance Baseline…

  • Infernal Strike
    Leap through the air toward a targeted location, dealing Fire damage to all enemies within 6 yards.
  • Shear
    Shears an enemy for Physical damage, and shatters a Lesser Soul Fragment from your target.
    Generates 10 Fury.
  • Torment
    Taunts the target to attack you.
  • Soul Cleave
    Viciously strike all enemies in front of you for Physical damage and heal yourself for (50% of Attack power). Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.
    Consumes up to 2 Soul Fragments within 25 yds

Vengeance Quest Acquired…

  • Throw Glaive
    Throw a demonic glaive at the target, dealing Physical damage. The glaive can ricochet to [1 additional enemies][an additional enemy] within 10 yards.
  • Demon Spikes
    Surge with fel power, increasing your Armor
  • Fiery Brand
    Brand an enemy with a demonic symbol, instantly dealing Fire damage
    The enemy’s damage done to you is reduced by 40% for 8 sec.
  • Metamorphosis
    Transform to demon form for 15 sec, increasing current and maximum health by 50% and Armor by 200%

Vengeance Talent Tree…

  • Fel Devastation
    Unleash the fel within you, damaging enemies directly in front of you for Fire damage over 2 sec.
  • Sigil of Flame
    Place a Sigil of Flame at the target location that activates after 2 sec.
    Deals Fire damage to all enemies affected by the sigil.
  • Fracture
    (Replaces Shear)
    Rapidly slash your target for Physical damage, and shatter 2 Lesser Soul Fragments from them.
    Generates 25 Fury.
  • Soul Carver
    Carve into the soul of your target, dealing Fire damage and addtional Fire damage over 3 sec. Immediately shatters 2 Lesser Soul Fragments from the target and 1 additional Lesser Soul Fragment every 1 sec.
  • Fallout
    Immolation Aura’s initial burst shatters 1/2/3 Lesser Soul Fragments from enemies.
  • Abyssal Strike
    Infernal Strike creates a Sigil of Flame when you land and its cooldown is reduced by 8 sec.
  • Feed the Demon
    Consuming a Soul Fragment reduces the remaining cooldown of Demon Spikes by 0.5 sec.
  • Feast of Souls
    Soul Cleave heals you for an additional (20/40/60% of Attack power) over 6 sec.
  • Improved Demon Spikes
    Demon Spikes now increase your parry chance by 15% for 6 sec.
  • Demonic Flames
    Increases the duration of Fiery Brand by 2.0 sec.
  • Charred Flesh
    Fiery Brand increases the Fire damage your abilities deal to the target by 20%.
  • Improved Sigil of Flame
    Deals additional Fire damage over 6 sec.
  • Improved Fel Devastation
    Causing damage also heals you based on damage done.
  • Improved Infernal Strike
    Increase Infernal Strike by 1 additional charge.
  • Demonic Deflection
    When you parry an attack, the cooldown of Metamorphosis is reduced by 3.0 sec. This can only occur once every 1.0 sec.
  • Sigil of Silence
    Place a Sigil of Silence at the target location that activates after 2 sec. Silences all enemies affected by the sigil for 6 sec.
  • Sigil of Chains
    Place a Sigil of Chains at the target location that activates after 2 sec.
    All enemies affected by the sigil are pulled to its center and are snared, reducing movement speed by 70% for 6 sec.
  • Sigil of Misery
    Place a Sigil of Misery at the target location that activates after 2 sec.
    Causes all enemies affected by the sigil to cower in fear, disorienting them for 20 sec.
  • Quicken Glaive
    Reduces the cooldown of Throw Glaive by 6 sec.
  • Improved Metamorphosis
    Reduces the cooldown of Metamorphosis by 60 sec.
  • Demonic Flames
    Increases the duration of Fiery Brand by 2.0 sec.
  • Burning Alive
    Every 2 sec, Fiery Brand spreads to one nearby enemy.
  • Razelikh’s Defilement
    Soul Cleave reduces the remaining cooldown on a random Sigil by 8 sec.
  • Painbringer
    Each Soul Fragment you consume reduces all damage you take by 5% for 4 sec.
  • Infernal Armor
    Immolation Aura increases your armor by 10/20/30% and causes melee attackers to suffer (5% of Attack power) Fire damage.
  • Agonizing Flames
    Immolation Aura increases your movement speed by 20% and its duration is increased by 50%.
  • Concentrated Sigils
    All Sigils are now targeted at your location, and the duration and radius of their effects is increased by 20%.
  • Quickened Sigils
    All Sigils activate 1 second faster, and their cooldowns are reduced by 20%.
  • Void Reaver
    Enemies struck by Soul Cleave deal 6% less damage to you for 12 sec.
  • Embrace the Pain
    Increases maximum health gained from Metamorphosis by an additional 5/10/15%
  • Revel in Pain
    Fiery Brand now lasts 10 sec. When Fiery Brand expires on your primary target, you gain a shield that absorbs damage for 15 sec, based on your damage dealt to them while Fiery Brand was active.
  • Improved Soul Cleave
    Soul Cleave heals you for an additional (50% of Attack power) for each Soul Fragment consumed
  • Demons Rage
    While transformed, Shear and Fracture generate 20 additional Fury.
  • Charred Warblades
    You heal for 5/10/15% of all Fire damage you deal.
  • Fiery Demise
    Fiery Brand also increases Fire damage you deal to the target by 5/10/15%
  • Fueled by Pain
    You have a chance to activate Metamorphosis for 5 sec each time you consume a Soul Fragment. You have a chance to activate Metamorphosis for 5 sec each time you consume a Soul Fragment.
  • Ruinous Bulwark
    Fel Devastation heals for an additional 15%, and 50% of its overhealing is converted into an absorb shield for 10 sec.
  • Last Resort
    Sustaining fatal damage instead transforms you to Metamorphosis form.
    This may occur once every 8 min.
  • Bulk Extraction
    Demolish the spirit of all those around you, dealing (30% of Attack power) Fire damage to nearby enemies and extracting up to 5 Lesser Soul Fragments, drawing them to you for immediate consumption.
  • Soul Barrier
    Shield yourself for 12 sec, absorbing damage.
    Consumes all Soul Fragments within 25 yds to add to the shield per fragment.
1 Like

I really dislike having to choose between a utility / fury talent like Demon Blades and a dps talent like Blind Fury.

To me, Demon Blades + Fel Blade should just be 1 talent, and only compete with other fury generation talents.

Blind Fury really needs split up between the fury generation part and the eyebeam damage increase.

Spamming demon’s bite every GCD is 100x more tedious than rogue’s sinister strike. With the spell queue window it feels very suboptimal and prevents pipelining spell casts.

IMO Heroes of the Storm did a good job with Illidan; as you get more kills his attack speed increases more and more, and it feels a lot more like demon blades + felblade to me.

Yea I wouldn’t mind that.

But here is something to consider…
The current talents allows both vengeance and havoc to have access to fel blade. This is why I included that as part of the class talents tree. Then as vengeance, when your in your demon form, you are attacking with your claws, not your weapons. So the idea of demon blades doesn’t make sense for vengeance.

So as a result, Fel Blade and Demon blades end up in different trees.

I just realized I changed some things I didn’t intend from my first version from earlier.

I wanted to have a choice between Demon Blades and my version of Insatiable Hunger…

Insatiable Hunger
When you consume any soul, all fury generation abilities are increased by 10% for 5 sec.

What this does is make it so it’s a choice between auto attacks or actively managing your Soul Fragments for those that enjoy that (I like that soul management myself).

If that was the choice instead of Blind Fury, then do you think blind fury should still be an option? Or perhaps need the fury generation by lets say 1/2 but make it baseline into a higher rank / improved version of an Eye Beam talent deeper in the tree?

What’s your take on that idea?

I would be happy to see Blind Fury removed completely. Filling up the fury bar once every 30s is not very compelling to me, especially since our fury reserves are so small.
The increased duration is an easy way to get killed as well, since you cannot move out of one shot mechanics but need to be nearly in melee range to do damage with it.

It was not compelling as a fury talent alone, so a 50% buff to eyebeam damage was tacked onto Blind Fury to make up for it, which imo kind of broke the talent system rules of having comparable choices on each row (fury + damage vs fury vs fury).

If they feel like they have to keep Blind Fury around, then get rid of the bonus eyebeam duration and instead double the fury capacity to 200 when speccing Blind Fury, since the intent of the talent seems to be having a big burst window.

I can’t help but feel that there’s too much wrong with our base kit that needs addressed before talents can really be evaluated.
Until our aoe target scaling + bad mastery / bad ability damage schools + lack of cds + weak core ability damage is fixed, I will feel like every talent needs to be +1000% aoe damage / convert all damage to chaos / adds 3 damage cooldowns, etc.

I made some changes.
Moved things around, added a couple things.

One thing I added was this…

Choice Talent…

Wide Eyes
Eye Beam no longer costs Fury and its cooldown is reduced by 50%.
OR
Blind Fury
Eye Beam generates 40 Fury every sec. and its duration is increased by 50%.

What’s your thoughts on an option like this?
Personally, I like how 1 option it acts as a Fury Gen ability at the kiss/curse of needing to cast it longer thus you might have to end it to move and/or at higher risk to get interrupted in like PvP.
The other option allows you to use it at any time without the increase duration and its CD is reduced by 50% but you no longer gain fury from it. So its essentially just a more used DPS ability and that’s it.

Its almost like a upgrade/downgrade/side grade of Raddon’s Cascading Eyes.

Shared tree is looking a lot better. Design and balance wise, i would like to believe blizz will have a similar “skeleton” when they release it. The bottom end blends into each tree too much, but thats just differrnce in opinion. Personally i think there will be slight branches toward each spec, just never a cross in between.

The bottom traits in both druid and dk take a full investment. If you want the bottom trait, you have to invest in most things toward the top. Druid is more blended, but utility is centered enough where you would prob grab it on the way to invest your “off” points.

1 Like

I wish they would make more of the DH abilities do chaos damage that way mastery actually is useful.

Also don’t tie a meta CDR to a talent - the CD should have always been shorter or if they don’t want to make it a shorter CD make it more impactful.

Hopefully they roll back all of the SL changes for the class and some of the BFA changes. i.e. Chaos strike being based off of crit to refund instead of chance would be better, a longer demonic meta, and the EB square root damage change.

1 Like

I agree about the paths taken to actually commit.

I’ve tried to pretend to put points into the tree paths and see how limited it can be for various play styles. But I get lost as so many points and different branches that I have a difficult time seeing what I did as well as what I didn’t pick up and then trying to redirect a new path/version to something more realistic.

However, at this point I am mainly focused on just adding any cool ideas I get into the trees as that I think is the most valuable piece of all of this.

The tree layout/structure was just a tool to visualize both how many different abilities we have/lack and the possibility of gameplay styles one can pick. I think with all the limitations that the tree has been set up with…

  • Node linking
  • Required points to progress further
  • Choice nodes
  • Limited amount of points to invest in that you can’t have everything

These have imo shown to be enough to basically do anything they want in the talent tree and balance each node ability with a variety of different methods in order to keep choice and balance in order to preserve fun.

So In conclusion, I am basically done what I can and won’t be doing many more updates/alternations unless I get direct feedback to consider or a cool idea pops into my head.

Things like the Demonic Anchor ability I thought would be cool to choose if your like a pvper or you are either tanking a M+ and for see you have a high chance at dying so you can try and guess when that’s about to happen and have an ability to act upon it.

Or in the Havoc tree I recently added the Soul Reaver and Flame Reaver talents as a minor DPS cooldown that I think aligns well with how Havoc works and it would both feel fun and impactful with some level or skill/luck as well pending your talent build and the situation your in.

So yea that’s what I got to report lol.

1 Like