Okay so now we’re actually arguing that delvers are intentionally running lower keys they can’t get any gear upgrades from in order to ignore the mechanics and farm IO? And this is the fault of delves? What happened to the argument that delvers were skipping lower keys altogether?
You’re just describing someone that has run a bunch of dungeons, got a bunch of IO, and learned nothing. That has nothing to do with delves.
Ethan I think he’s saying that if they do run lower keys then the gear that delves awarded them allowed them to skip the mechanics which leads to kicking the can down the road far enough to where a +6 gets tested and that player didn’t know Mistcaller summoned foxes so they have no idea what to do before it freezes and kills them.
At which point they’re doing content that will tax their ilvl and force them to learn the mechanics if they want to succeed.
The hypothetical person in this scenario literally ran lower level keys to prepare themselves for higher level keys and still failed. That’s not a delve issue by any stretch - they aren’t delvers at that point they’re just bad m+ players.
Correct.
The issue existed even in DF S3. Low level keys giving over powered rewards in relation to the difficulty of the dungeons. This taught people to ignore mechanics because they didn’t matter because the gear carried you through it, up to X range
Then the dungeon squish happened in DF S4 and this sifted out a bunch of that riff-raff by essentially taking away over powered gear from trivial difficulty
Now that same problem is back, but even worse now because that trivial difficulty content is giving out gear considerably stronger than it was even when it was overpowered to start with
Farm crests** , and in doing so is farming io, all the while not learning mechanics because they do not need to. Then they work their way up in an attempt to farm gear, and hit a point where these mechanics that they do not know, are starting to kill them, leading to bricked keys.
Im sure some still are. And those groups who invite those folks kinda get whats coming to them. Im arguing this whole “just vet them” argument that youre making acting like its simply black and white and that io flashes “DELVER” in LFG when they apply to groups
No they just keep getting accepted into grojps with a fake resume and carried because no one wants to waste their time leaving mid way on a key, having it downgrade, and reform a group
You keep making excuses instead of just admitting that hey, this actually can be a legitimate issue
I think having T9+ delve gear scale to mythic level in openworld outside of m+ would solve this issue entirely and then descale to m0’s if qued. They have this system for pvp gear, just have it in reverse for m+ que. So ilvl is at heroic level if that character never touched m+, and only way to increase ilvl is by earning the gear in m+ in order to only do that content.
We got a lot of different content now, but gear is the same across all forms of earning it, this is the issue. Have delve gear be open world compatible and heroic raid compatible, anything higher you need to do that higher content and earn it from doing that content ONLY.
If they’re getting invited and succeeding because their group members are making up for their shortfalls… Yeah that’s just called being good enough to succeed.
If you’re timing keys with one person on the floor the whole dungeon then that person is good enough for that group… But the rest of that group should probably get someone else and do higher keys instead of 4manning lower ones.
I got KSM a couple times, and I will get it in the future. I enjoy M+ and will do it because I enjoy it. I don’t care that Delves award Hero-track gear. Anyone that feels threatened by players getting rewards in a different game mode that they happen to enjoy is guilty of being worried about losing a meaningless murloc-measuring content. Grow up. Let people play how they want to play, and stop clutching your pearls about whether someone got a reward. Once you log off, no one will care about your WoW career lmao.
It’s a game, and let’s face it: if you can buy carries, everyone running around in Hero-track gear could have earned it or not earned it, and you’ll never know unless logs are public. Doubtful anyone in Hero-track gear with zero skill can time a higher key anyhow.
Blockquote I am very happy with where my characters are at with delves and have zero interest in m+
It’s exactly this.
And I’ll say it again - until they solve the ridiculous toxicity of M+ players, I will not be setting foot in them…and, frankly, I have no idea how you do that. It’s not like it’s a player or two, here or there. To me, it feels like the majority of the community.
So, if we get thrown under the bus again for the sake of these epic whiners, I’m probably unsubbing. If I have no path forward, why am I playing?
It doesnt really work that way for PvE though since theres multiple forms of PvE content to do and being able to carry over from one to another and not have to farm separate sets of gear is a plus in everyones books.
Its called being carried and has nothing to do with “being good enough” and just kicks the can down the road as the other poster said. The problem rears its ugly head when that persons contribution is required.
No it means that group (minus that ONE player) are overqualified for that key level. These are not synonymous.
This isnt the concern. The concern is people punching above their skill level, bricking your runs, making your path to KSM longer and more annoying than it would have originally been.
In the last 1000 keys ive run, ive seen toxicity in like maybe 3 of those, from the 2-25 range
It isn’t. However, because of spell queuing the frontals start to happen back-to-back, and this is quite punishing for melee players.
This argument is without merit, since this has been a problem ever since players could buy carries to earn gear and score. There are always going to be players with undeserved IO bricking keys. Put in the group description that you want applicants to PM you with one sentence what to do during XYZ encounter or XYZ trash pack. Filters out the bads.
In the last 1000 keys ive run, ive seen toxicity in like maybe 3 of those, from the 2-25 range
Good for you. That is not my experience, hence why i stopped running them.
And no, before you say it, no - I’m not the problem. I’ve been playing since day one in 2005, and I’ve been in highly successful raiding guilds. I know what I’m doing. It’s the god-awful attitude of M+ players.
How about this, the different game modes are given a bias to the stats that can be obtained in them! M+ will have majority haste gear, Raids crit, pvp versatility and delves mastery!
Alternatively could also rotate the stat biases around for the armor weights so that plate have to raid for haste and so on.
Not so much. Because now you dont have to buy carries, so the number of cases this happens in shot through the roof.
Twas a slight issue in the past. Considerably moderate problem now that the devs have addressed it.
I wasnt going to blame you…but the entire section leading to this comment comes off as quite arrogant as skill has nothing to do with attitude lol 
Absolutely not lol
You know what they call four people who are qualified to time a +10 and one AFK person? A group qualified to time a +6.
They absolutely are synonymous. The AFK person isn’t dragging anyone down in that scenario, the other four people are slumming it way below their level.
Nor are the four other people increasing the one carries skills/worth. Not synonymous lol
skill has nothing to do with attitude
I have no idea what your point is. I was merely pointing out that I’m not having a miserable time in M+ because I’m the one screwing them up.
I don’t know man. I know some casuals IRL who think a +8 is too hard. They aren’t getting that Vault gear. Like they won’t use their defensives and interrupt all the wrong stuff, if they remember to do it at all. I don’t think it’s as rampant as people claim it is, and I think many players who do higher end content seem to forget how hard the game looks and feels like to casuals.
Like I said, ask applicants to PM you in one sentence what to do. Filters out the bads, and ensures you have group mates who read.
The great thing about having a static metric of success like timing a key is that it’s not subjective. If that group times the key then everyone in that group was good enough for that group to time the key, including the guy who sucks.
Now if the group fails to time the key then the group was not good enough and you can start decomposing that to figure out where the issue is.
Rampant. No. But it is bad enough (shown in Blizzs internal data) for them to personly address it. Thats worth an honorable mention at the very least.
I some times do something like this in the notes in LFG: “whats the name of your interrupt” and dont invite anyone who doesnt whisper me something. Even if they dont look like the strongest candidate, i at least see that theyre paying attention and responding accordingly. Better than the “big d*ick dps bro. 4 million io alt. Invite”
Ahhh so close. Its actually called Pummel