Delves Are Spotlighting Class Imbalance!

[Henceforth-area-52]

@Rouxg-proudmoore

I managed to do Tier 8 Skittering as a ilvl 590 Disc Priest today, 1st try. Very happy i finished it but, i had to mind control a Shade and use him throughout the delve which made it very tedious. The lack of real damage from Brann, made this delve take about an hour. Just a monumental slog. I also atempted this as Shadow and i couldnt live past the first couple pulls. I died so fast it was shocking. Shadow has darn near zero survivability and the self sustain is near non-existant. Shields as Shadow are so weak they are near pointless.

Disc, for obvious reasons, took a while, but at no time did i feel i was in danger of not being able to finish the delve, even with my damage being so much lower than Shadow.

My Frost DK, chewed this delve up and spit it out like it was nothing. The damage, the kicks, the silences, the defensives, the self heals…this class has it all.

So why, why is there such a huge gap in ability to do this content between these two dps specs? Why? Why is it okay for Shadow to be in such a gimp state when attempting your new flagship content Blizz?

How is this okay? Why is there this massive of a difference in experience from one dps spec to another?

Do you not want this new content to be a POSITIVE experience for all players, regardless of class and spec?

Ill say it again, cause i have first hand experience with both melee and caster:

Delves are putting a spot light on a very real issue with this game, class imbalance. Some classes and specs are just having an easier time with this new content because of how they are designed. These same advantages carry over into other forms of content as well. I literally have no silences or interutps as Disc. None outside an AoE fear. No silences, no kicks, no interupts.

Now look at Monk, Druid and Shaman … they have WAY more in their healing kit than Disc does. WHY?

What possible, reasonable explaination could you have for that? There is none.

Same thing with some casters vs practically ALL melee in Delves. Why such a huge difference in enjoyment and experience…once again, its design.

There is no class balance for solo content.

Delves are balanced around ilvl.

Just accept it.

[Copperfield-silvermoon]

I’m not sure if it spotlights class imbalance but it does spotlight that each class has different kits. It would be difficult to balance delves in a way everyone has equal chances without homogenizing the classes a little. They would at the very least have to make it so every class has same mobility level, same access to interrupts, same level of damage mitgation, same dps in aoe and single target, and everyone would need equal access to ranged and melee abilities, and some form of self healing at the same capacity. It would make nobody unique in any regard aside from how the fantasy of the class looks. It’d just be the same skills all reskinned to fit your class.

[Thelei-stormrage]

@Copperfield-silvermoon

homogenizing

I really don’t want to go back to the way it was when there was so much homogenization

[Copperfield-silvermoon]

Yeah was not supporting doing that, but it is the only way to make it completely the same for everyone. Personally rather people just accept some classes will have an easier time while blizzard does there best to at the very least make it possible for those who have a hard time completing by tweaking a few numbers and maybe giving those who have hard time a minor amount of balance. Warlocks for example should just get a baseline interrupt that doesn’t require a specific pet out. But for the most part, I rather keep everyone unique.

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

To be fair it’s less that it’s spotlighting a previous imbalance and more that it’s high end solo content in a game where classes have all been designed around group play.

In dungeons and raids it’s a lot less crippling for a class to have some weaknesses, because other people can cover for you. So long as the performance of the main reason for being the role is competitive, it’s not a huge deal if a Shadow Priest can’t interrupt because the melee DPS and tank can for example.

Those weaknesses can suddenly become front and center when you don’t have anybody to cover for you.

Especially with interrupts because for some delves they made them rather important.

[Cornelius-wyrmrest-accord]

I feel like you have it a bit backwards here.

The real issue is that more work needed/needs to be put into making Delves enjoyable for every spec. That’s why Mage Tower didn’t have a “one size fits all” challenge.

WoW isn’t designed around solo content, and a spec’s ability to do solo content isn’t what dictates how “balanced” it is in regards to the rest of the game.

Priests, for example, are timing keys in M+ right up to +10 for Holy and +11 for Disc and Shadow. As far as representation in timed keys goes.

• Discipline: Is inline with most healers at 10.6% (MW being 11.1%, Restoration Druid being at 11.9%, Preservation being at 11.3%)
• Holy: Is the least represented healing spec currently at 7.2%
• Shadow: Sits around lower-middle of the pack for overall DPS representation at ~3.5% (similar to other specs like Frost Mage at 3.9%, Enhancement at 3.7%, Augmentation at 3.5% etc.; below the current outliers like Retribution at 10.3%, Arcane at 9.2%, Fury at 8.1% etc.; and above the bottom of the barrel like Unholy DK at 1.9%, Outlaw at 1.6%, Destruction at 1.3% etc.)

When it comes to raids.

• Holy was present for the world first kills of: Ulgrax (H & M), Bloodbound Horror (H & M), Sikran (H & M), Rasha’nan (H & M), Ovi’nax (H), Ky’veza (H), Silken Court (H)
• Discipline was present for the world first kill of: Ulgrax (M)
• Shadow was present for the world first kill of: Ulgrax (H), Bloodbound Horror (H & M), Sikran (H), Rasha’nan (H), Ovi’nax (H), Ky’veza (H), Silken Court (H)

Ansurek world 1st looks to be bugged on Raider IO, but world 2nd for heroic had 2x Holy and 1x Discipline.

We can see that all three specs see play at a high level, with the lower representation of Holy in M+ being made up for with their heavy representation in raids - presumably because the difference in the toolkit of Holy and Disc makes Holy better equipped for a raid environment and Disc better equipped for something like M+ (which also presumably makes Disc better equipped for solo content too).

Shadow looks like it could probably use a bit of help at the higher levels. It’s representation in M+, while roughly in line with a lot of other DPS specs, is definitely low given that it’s the only DPS spec for Priest (while Mage, for example, may have Frost with a similar representation at 3.9%, but also has Arcane as an outlier at 9.2%).

But when it comes to things like

@Rouxg-proudmoore

Delves are putting a spot light on a very real issue with this game, class imbalance. Some classes and specs are just having an easier time with this new content because of how they are designed. These same advantages carry over into other forms of content as well. I literally have no silences or interutps as Disc. None outside an AoE fear. No silences, no kicks, no interupts.

Now look at Monk, Druid and Shaman … they have WAY more in their healing kit than Disc does. WHY?

Monk and Druid aren’t seeing notably more play than priest (Disc in M+ and Holy in raids). Shaman is definitely an outlier, seeing heavy play in raids and representing 31.5% of the current healer pool clearing M+.

[Natagosa-wyrmrest-accord]

You’re 10 iLvLs below what’s recommended, so if course they’re going to be challenging. That’s a huge deal. Also, my guildie and other’s have said they’re much easier as shadow. Also, you’d have an easy time getting a group as disc. I honestly just don’t see the issue here.

[Rouxg-proudmoore]

@Natagosa-wyrmrest-accord

You’re 10 iLvLs below what’s recommended

My DK is 15 ilvls too low. So whats your excuse for that?

@Cornelius-wyrmrest-accord

The real issue is that more work needed/needs to be put into making Delves enjoyable for every spec. That’s why Mage Tower didn’t have a “one size fits all” challenge.

Yes. I would agree with that statement. But unforunately, that is NOT what delves are right now.

[Krisus-daggerspine]

@Sabetha-turalyon

To be fair it’s less that it’s spotlighting a previous imbalance and more that it’s high end solo content in a game where classes have all been designed around group play.

Pretty much this. I like each class having its own identity with strengths/weaknesses. Maybe make it so warlocks actually have a silence that doesn’t rely on pets. It would probably be better to change the delves. They would have to be adaptive to your class/spec. I don’t see them putting in that much effort though.

[Abäddón-area-52]

Problem with this argument is that if you go in at the recommended ilvl you no longer need the items and have very little reason to be doing them short of collection items or achievements.

If they want delves to be solo content then all classes/specs need to be able to solo them equally. There is zero reason that a 574 of one class should be able to solo them and a 590 of another can’t. It’s just poor balance and design and Blizzard needs to take that into account with their designs. Blizzard needs to decide who these are balanced for and give appropriate rewards. Getting 603 ilvl when you’re already 600+ is not an appropriate reward. Which is exactly why people are doing T8 at 570+, it’s an actual upgrade and not a side grade.

[Sheara-silver-hand]

na more like a spot light how much blizzard lies about its expansion features

[Pandapassion-area-52]

Different specs and classes are good at different things. Do you really want the game so homogenized that everyone can do everything with no downsides? We are practically there for the most part anyway.

[Platinumtwo-benediction]

so what im reading is nerf dks into the ground - devs reading this probably