There was no ratings requirements on PVP gear till season 3. Season 3 introduced a 1850 rating requirement on weapons and a 2200 rating req for shoulders.
Speaking as a terrible pvper both at the time and now I think that’s fair enough as technically pvp weapons are superior to their tier 6 equivilents.
I’m gonna be making Thunder and Deep Thunder on my pally. If I can, I’ll upgrade to Stormherald. Is it “BiS?” Nope. But it’s definitely good enough for me!
Huh, that’s good to know!
Lots of good info overall. I didn’t play shaman till BT last time. Back then I was in a meh guild. Somehow managed to be #3 Dps in all season 2 gear. Top was a hunter, 2nd was a rogue.
As for the slow/slow I do know that slow/fast was used earlier on and was viable. I always kept a fast OH in my bags. I was slow/slow for most fights.
As for people wondering why I’m not a blacksmith now…well that’s simple. I haven’t even started the character. I will be using my boost on it or mage.Debating on if I want mage or shaman for pve at start. I’m leaning more towards mage. (Due to how unfriendly tbc can be for melee) while slow leveling my shaman. (I love shaman pvp in the 49 bracket in tbc.) It might max shaman at start of season 2.
Again folks I like to play casual now days. As in I just want to log in do pvp, maybe join raid guild for a while. (One that raids once a week) Not all of us like to go hard core. I used to enjoy high end, not so much now days. Way too many people being ocd about gear score and bis. It ruined the game for me. I spent cata onwards only doing random bgs and nothing else. I was never a big fan of arena unless to get a few items. That way I would be in-between the arena folks and the casual bg people.(Until legion…then I started to dislike the game design)
I think if I go blacksmithing I will enjoy it. However I always liked stats over random proc. I also saw some debate on if the haste from 2 macee + mongoose and other gear makes you go over haste cap. (If I find that thread again I will link)
Honestly it’s clear to me that bs is the way to go if I want to please my ego, do a bit more dps, and please the ocd bis community. I still don’t see it as a massive gimp. However that being said when beta comes out we will find out.
As for people wanting to know what profession I want to be…simple herb/alch. I like my xmutes. Free gold and I don’t have to go into many caves to get herbs.
Also loryn thank you for the information you brought up a bunch of stuff I completely forgot about.
This is why the skeleton of my spreadsheet is all ready to go, but I haven’t really filled anything in yet for any of my classes because I’ll just get irritated having to redo the numbers later.
WTB Beta
Dragonmaw proc doesn’t stack, it refreshes apparently so hitting haste cap is irrelevant. Also, most of your damage comes from white swings, not button presses.
Alts are good for this, your main is your main so should be focussed on doing the best you can on it.
I don’t see the issue with cost or gold spent. Comparatively you’re spending 1/3 of your current raid costs per night and gold isn’t really needed as much as it is in classic. Once you have enough for epic flying,enough to fund your raid nights and enough to pay for the upgrades to gear I don’t see the point in stacking up gold beyond these points. Especially if by spending your gold early on you’re reducing the long term costs.
They’re good weapons, but they aren’t so good that you should care about having them. PVP weapons and weapons from raids aren’t that far behind.
1 Like
Yep. I played an enhancement sham, a rogue and a warrior in TBC. It was always double slow weapons.
Right, and that’s what the old post is saying. Some here are pointing out that the reason double slow was so good could technically be considered a bug, as running double slow double WF back then resulted in a 36% proc rate, instead the 20% it’s supposed to be.
We’ll have to see if TBC Classic allows for the 36% rate to happen, or if the “bug” is fixed, before declaring double slow the outright best way this time around.
From what I recall slow weapons always had a higher proc chance for effects, and with an internal CD of 3s (per imbue) a slower weapon reduced the chance of clipping into the internal CD badly and run into wasted procs. Plus with all the haste effects we’ll have, we don’t want to hit sub-1.5s swings anyway.
It’s just a quirk of how the game works. I don’t think it’s a bug, or it would probably not have lasted as long as it did.
I’d look at it as a feature of TBC. Not sure if it was this thread or another that someone said the proc rate was “fixed” in Wrath. It’s not like enh shamans were sitting on top of the meters due to the high proc rate so it’s probably not too important either way. Just could potentially open the door to some different playstyles if it isn’t functioning the same as it used to, and in OP’s case, make crafting Dragonmaw less of a priority.
It’d be pretty unfair to make a change like that, especially since they retained “bugs” intentionally with Classic.
Though I don’t think that will ever make faster weapons better, as Windfury benefits from slow weapons due to the nature of its internal CD on top of a potential higher proc rate.
Many future Shaman players (and those already today) are already planning to have Blacksmithing. They did nerf Drums - which, honestly, was a really good change - but nerfing other things too is a bit strange.
as much as you want shaman in TBC and enhance without BS would be a good reason to pass one over
Yeah, someone foregoing the minimal effort required to have BiS weapons until SWP is… not someone you want in your raid.
1 Like
It’s someone you don’t want in a raid guild that’s going to go all out. I don’t plan on raiding with elite guilds. I did that in the past and couldn’t stand the elitist mindset. I play the game to have fun, not as a 2nd job. I’m going more casual and don’t mind if I’m not full BIS. My shaman might not even be max till T5 comes out. My mage will be my raider toon for T4 and T5. Also most casual guilds don’t start up till later on. So you can slowly get bis with even lower and slower effort. XD it’s what I did in classic. I took my time and eventually got to that point.
I made this thread for 2 reasons. #1 to get a feel for how tbc is going to play out. (As in what are other players thinking and will it be more of the same from vanilla classic)#2 to figure out if I want my shaman as my main or my mage.
I find it interesting how the community demands blizzard doesn’t make any changes. Yet as a whole the raid community will come up with ways to cheese the game and or not play it how it was back in 2006. Part of the reason content was harder was due to lack of knowledge. You also had people constantly trying odd specs or gear types. All are very rare in the new classic setting. We all get funneled into playing the way a guide tells us.
I do know blacksmithing is the best for shaman and back in OG bc I was swordsmith on my warrior. I had maxed out Lion heart. People told me I was stupid for being sword spec and pvping. (I also did pve) I still got over a 2000 rating. I also leveled a shaman without blacksmithing got my season 2 weapons and became #3 dps on my guilds charts. (Again not the best guild but I had fun)
The point I’m trying to make is not everyone is playing this game to be the best in the best guild with the best items. Some of us like myself fine the elitist attitude of guilds like that to not be enjoyable.
And yes if you are wonder I more than likely will go blacksmithing. Even though this shaman will be more of a casual pvp alt. I want my two hand mace. It’s nice to have stuns on shamans who don’t have em.
2 Likes
All enhance shaman went BS back in the day… It is not elitist or “all out” to take advantage of the massive benefits of a profession that make huge gains in your spec. Will you see a mage or lock without tailoring? You didn’t the first time around and I would never consider one without it today. Not having these things means you end up with a loot goblin that is harder to gear and will be underperforming for the majority of TBC, why bother?
That said, how BAD at a video game do you have to be to not care to perform your best? The point of games are to win. Anyone not setting their main or a serious alt up for success can not be relied on by a team. If you were a cop and your partner came to work drunk with a nerf gun you wouldn’t consider hitting the streets with them. This is gamer’s equivelant.
Guess you didn’t read my full post. Look at the bottom buddy. Also yes I saw plenty of people without blacksmithing. Lots without tailoring. Some people went jewel crafting, others went herb and alc. Some even went engineering. XD
Last I saw on shaman discord was that WF/FT might outperform at lower levels (T4, maybe some T5), but that WF/WF ended up better eventually (and early depending on weapons). Of course everything is based on whatever assumptions go into the sims, including the 36% WF proc chance for WF/WF (I think that’s the WF “bug” you’re referencing). There might also be certain haste points (i.e. < 1.5 second swing timer), but that looks like it can be largely avoided (or even not an issue, there’s an old EJ post about it I think).
Beta should clear it up. And frankly I’d much rather go resto sub-spec for totem range and quality of life, which (IIRC) favors double WF.
Getting back to the original topic, one of the primary benefits of BS is the certainty of getting 2 bis or near-bis weapons versus relying on raid drops. And since you’re bringing 2 really good weapons into the raid, it’s like having 2 extra great raid drops right when it matters most. Worst case is your alternative BIS drops first week and it/they go to someone’s offspec (or to you to experiment with WT/FT). Best case is literally weeks or months of better weapons, the single best slot to improve in the game. Also lets you enchant without worry, whereas a drop that’s an upgrade but not bis might make you think twice about dropping big money on mongoose.
1 Like
For WF/FT I know it was they way to go due to low drop on prince for axes. (But if bs with dual mace prince weapon isn’t a good choice. It’s only a choice if bs maces go back to 2.0 version with unique) I was never a fan of WF/FT spec just cause having fast OH bugged me. Didn’t like animation. I came across that EJ post as well. And sadly once again we need to wait till beta to see and compare.
Yep anyone going right into raids at start should have bs for maces. Waiting for season 1 weapons will take too long. Vs farming. (Unless starting much later in xpac and depends on what point and play style) However I’m curious as to damage differences with dual bs mace vs 1 bs mace and one gladiator weapon. (Stats vs proc refresh) if anyone has some data on this send it down. Edit: but this might also be a wait for beta. Also still depend on what upgrade version of mace you might have at the time.
Anyway I’m hoping off this thread you all have fun. I got what I needed from it. ((What people are thinking and how to prep for classic Plays style. If it’s worth leveling bs when I’m starting shaman late as alt. <season 2>, and how casual do I want to be on said alt. And am I more pvp or pve.)) Now it’s a wait game for beta/info from shaman discord.
Take care all and cya in TBC.
1 Like
good thing i already have a guild 
Get the PVP weapon, and when the rating is required in S3 just play good.