Declining OG Hardcore Realm Populations -- An Update

WoW Classic WoW Classic Hardcore
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An update on this:

I’ve been tracking Defias Pillager (Alliance) server health for a few weeks now. But I’ve really been wanting to grab a snapshot of all the Hardcore servers, and factions, population at a time where I could get an objective measurement of all player counts. Given Doomhowl’s Horde side, I had to wait until the earliest hours on a Monday morning in order to get actual results during what would be the “deadest” time of day and week.

So, starting at 7:27 AM on Monday morning, I was able to use ‘/who’ to get accurate measurements of all Hardcore player counts (not including the elusive European servers). The methodology of which I shared on Declining OG Hardcore Realm Populations -- Solution Needed - #44 by Songwind-defias-pillager

Monday, May 5th, @ 7:27AM
///Defias Pillager/// Alliance (96 Online) / Horde (44 Online)
///Skull Rock/// Alliance (66 Online) / Horde (63 Online)
///Doomhowl/// Alliance (621 Online) / Horde (1019+ Online)

To clarify, these are all unique players as well. Not multiple characters shared across one player. And even by COMBINING all of Defias Pillager, Skull Rock, and Doomhowl Alliance at the same time (890 players pooled together), they don’t even get close to Doomhowl Horde. Again, these samples were all taken at the same time, same day, so that fact is irrelevant in considering why the other servers are much lower in comparison. We can reasonably assume that all numbers fluctuate up or down relatively at the same ratios at different hours.

Doomhowl was “rumored” that it was a streamer-server from the start. If most streamers have left, the numbers I’ve gotten don’t align with that speculation. From what we can extrapolate from the facts, we can possibly assume that:

  1. People stayed for the population
  2. People stayed for the quality-of-life updates
  3. It’s possible people stayed for the time-of-day for Server Time?

Possibly others that I may have not considered.

Again, I’d like to petition that Blizzard can either provide some sort of changes to attract people back to the original Hardcore realms, provide a means for those who were left on the original realms a way to transfer their invested characters over, or merging Defias Pillager and Skull Rock in an attempt to mitigate the impact that Doomhowl’s release has had on server population.

Also, some form of DC protections must be made in order to protect server populations, of all of Hardcore, from further player attrition. I’m not specifically talking about resurrects. Multiple easy-to-implement methods have been proposed over the years. It’s long-due for something to be put in.

As of now, the only plans for Hardcore are for Doomhowl to slowly creep up to Naxxramas release. I can only assume that they will eventually drift into having the same issues we’re having in DP and SR. Unless they release a fourth fresh server. :tired_face:

If nothing else, any kind of response from Blizzard as to what their plans are for Hardcore across the board going forward is appreciated.

Again, the methodology of getting these numbers is simply by ‘/who x-y’ level range and capping results to 49 or less, as the /who function doesn’t show more than 50 exactly at a time. To anyone who wants an actual breakdown of the numbers:

Monday, May 5th, starting at 7:27 AM
///Defias Pillager///
Alliance
1-20 (31 Online) 21-59 (40 Online) 60 (25 Online) – [96 Players Online]
Horde
1-60 (44 Online) – [44 Players Online]

///Skull Rock///
Alliance
1-20 (26 Online) 21-40 (15 Online) 41-60 (25 Online) – [66 Players Online]
Horde
1-30 (38 Online) 31-60 (25 Online) – [63 Players Online]

///Doomhowl///
Alliance
1-4 (36 Online) 5-7 (33 Online) 8-10 (49 Online) 11-13 (31 Online) 14-17 (46 Online) 18-20 (49 Online) 21-26 (46 Online) 27-31 (39 Online) 32-36 (48 Online) 37-40 (49 Online) 41-45 (38 Online) 46-50 (31 Online) 51-59 (47 Online)
Dividing 60’s by class, as there’s more than 50 results at that level:
Level 60 – Warrior (8 Online) Priest (3 Online) Rogue (9 Online) Paladin (2 Online) Hunter (49 Online) Warlock (1 Online) Mage (5 Online) Druid (2 Online)
[621 Players Online]

Horde
1 (48 Online) 2-5 (35 Online) 6-8 (47 Online) 9-11 (41 Online) 12-14 (46 Online) 15 (28 Online) 16-17 (35 Online) 18-19 (39 Online) 20 (44 Online) 21-22 (31 Online) 23-25 (43 Online) 26-28 (42 Online) 29-32 (42 Online) 33-35 (49 Online) 36-39 (43 Online) 40-43 (40 Online) 44-47 (47 Online) 48-50 (39 Online) 51-54 (35 Online) 55-58 (36 Online) 59 (14 Online)
Dividing 60’s by class, as there’s more than 50 results at that level:
Level 60 - Warrior (43 Online) Priest (20 Online) Rogue (24 Online) Shaman (12 Online) Hunter (50+ results – can’t get an objective number as you can’t delineate any further, but there’s a lot) Warlock (15 Online) Mage (26 Online) Druid (5 Online)
[969 non-60 Hunters Online]
[1,019+ players AT LEAST Online]

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You can: Level class and race – 60 Hunter Orc – and so on.

The EU numbers are a bit fun. These are from now EU 5.40 pm , and I counted the auctions as well, but the Anniversary server numbers are guesstimates. I did not feel like adding 60 numbers per faction :wink:

Stitches - the originally most populated OG HC server, reaching 10 layers, where the streamers went on Horde:
Alliance: 147 (5120 auctions) Horde: 67 (auctions 881)
Total: 214

Mek’Rosh, the originally smaller OG HC server:
Aiilance: 227 (auctions 5731) Horde: 146 (auctions 5659)
Total: 373

Soulseeker, the Anniversary server:
Alliance: around 1800 players, auctions 52052
Horde: around 1500 players, auctions 47885

It seems there’s a correlation between players and auctions created. I’d like to see your AH numbers.

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Blizzard has shown time and time again that they don’t care for community, only promoting the newest shiny thing. It would be nice to see that change, but it would probably require a lot at this point.

The very least they could do would be quality of life for the OG hardcore servers. Combining them for one, and adding dual spec/instant mail, since that would be pretty easy to implement.

Long term, It doesn’t really feel like blizzard wants those servers to continue living, they want people to have to restart on a new server, and they will probably just release another fresh server again after tbc launches so you have to do it all over a third time. Doesn’t matter if you actually get attached to your characters, they mean nothing to the churning of the wheel.

Lots of people on Defias and SKull rock have lost characters to major server DC or Ddos and blizzard has considered zero approaches to make up for those very clear moments where people lose characters to a blizzard or outside issue.

I’m sure there is someone at blizzard who is glad every time another wave of 60’s die on old hardcore servers because to them, those peoples characters mean nothing, and they only want them to reroll on the new.

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Yes please.

No thanks! why do you think we stay on the OG servers? … apart form the attatchment to characters and Guildies.

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:open_mouth: new filter unlocked

And I massively appreciate you posting the numbers from the European servers. As of right now, unless there’s some method I’m not aware of, I can’t pop my head over to the European servers to check. No access whatsoever.

I’m all for it. Waiting an hour for mail to roll through, or grinding through 50 gold in order to respec; before respeccing again before running a dungeon or raid; contains no challenge. You could even argue that no dual-spec incentivizes gold-buying at 50g per respec, depending on how often you do it, but that’s a different conversation.

You are 100% correct on that second part though. The Wardens of Elune, and the broader community on Defias Pillager, is what keeps me resubbing. It sure isn’t the gameplay. I do NOT want to fish for an hour to get 50 eels for a THIRD of the ingredients necessary for one single elixir. :weary:

I don’t play WoW outside of Hardcore so I can understand how that may be a “tourist” opinion, and I’m careful with what I ask for because I am aware that there’s an older community that doesn’t like how far WoW has taken it in the casual direction (cough cough autorotation). However in the grander scheme of things, I don’t think wanting a healthy server population, in an MMO, is too outrageous of an ask.

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You can - as I have done - make a trial account in the other region, but unless you pay, you can access only the Retail realms – just like this here one. Blizz ha a how-to somewhere.

I do not play other than HC either … and I am a part of that older community (player since 2006, HC since 2012 - not an error, we have that long a history in WoW) and I am against most changes. I could live with insta-mail, but “free” dual-spec would not be to my liking - as it forces every player to have two specs and change whne asked to to have a place in a raid - A respec could be cheaper, it could even be free for my sake, but only available at your capital’s trainer, not everywhere - i’s not the price I’m against, but the accesibility.

I agree … where we disagree is what is a healthy server. Nek’Rosh alone has at least two top-tier guilds, raiding regularly. We all know one another and have a real nice community. I would not be advrese to merging the two Era HC realms, but I am vary of how this would be done from a naming pov not least. I do really not like the merged realms’ Vanillataur-Nek’Rosh for instance, but would also hate to lose my name if there’s also a Vanillataur-Stitches. And wha about guilds? It demands more work and delicatesse than I think Blizz is willing to put into it.

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Very thorough data acquirement, Song. As some have mentioned, the logistics seem like an uphill battle, but I hope it gets the attention of Blizzard for all our sakes. Thank you for your efforts and concern.

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I’ve taken another sample a couple of hours ago, several hours earlier than the sample I took in my OP.

Tuesday, May 6th, @ 01:07AM
///Defias Pillager/// Alliance (233 Online) / Horde (101 Online)
///Skull Rock/// Alliance (208 Online) / Horde (120 Online)
///Doomhowl/// Alliance (1,153 Online) / Horde (1,724+ Online)

As I said earlier, the ratio of the populations relative to each other are similar as the time of day changes. Looking forward to seeing how it changes on the weekends.

I have the numbers recorded, if anyone’s curious, though I won’t do that with every single sample. Doomhowl Horde had level 1, level 20, and level 60 Warrior, level 60 Hunter and level 60 Mage at 50+ results. In the interest of saving time, I just took those brackets at 50 results. This means that there is a possibility that the number of players online could be massively higher than posted.

Ultimately, the smaller a server gets, the harder it is to queue for group content and the more scarce/expensive the economy gets. Having no layers also affects farming for certain materials as the potential for gathering said materials is diminished. Even a second layer can dramatically increase resources across the server.

Again, asking for any Blizzard response on the subject.

2 Likes
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TL;DR release a new HC Fresh No revives No Crying Let’s GO

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Saturday, May 31, 2025 @ 06:22 AM EST
[Defias Pillager]
Alliance (87 Online) Horde (25 Online)
[Skull Rock]
Alliance (77 Online) Horde (46 Online)
[Doomhowl]
Alliance (665 Online) Horde (971+ Online)

Auction listings, according to the Auctionator addon:

Defias Pillager Alliance
2395 items
Defias Pillager Horde
535 items

Skull Rock Alliance
1644 items
Skull Rock Horde
1297 items

Doomhowl Horde
6891 items
Doomhowl Alliance
5593 items

Again, asking for a response from any Blizzard developer or community manager if they would be willing to devote time to fixing some of the massive issues we’ve had regarding player retention. WoW should be an MMO, and these servers fit that description several months ago. Server populations for a game like WoW should not be dipping down into double-digit player counts as they have started to do these past few weeks. The playerbase should be consolidated into one server for the time being so that way people aren’t having to skip content in order to get to 60.

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fascinating work :expressionless: no idea horde was so much more popular in HC. it must be from streamer influence; this is highly unusual for PvE servers.

2 Likes
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I personally believe that Hardcore should never have gotten its own server. It was actually a clever idea to keep it on normal PvE servers, allowing players to either continue playing after death or delete the Hardcore character. Having its own server is great, but ultimately detrimental to the population of the PvE servers that once harbored them.

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What about the changes to quest and PvP and many tiny details?

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Wednesday, June 4, 2025 @ 14:46 (2:46 PM) EST
[Defias Pillager]
Alliance (207 Online) Horde (71 Online)
Checking again at WorldBuffs drop @ 18:50/18:52, there were 461 players online for Alliance.
[Skull Rock]
Alliance (111 Online) Horde (98 Online)
[Doomhowl]
Alliance (1,030 Online) Horde (1,456 Online)

Auction listings, according to the Auctionator addon:

Defias Pillager Alliance
2533 items
Defias Pillager Horde
468 items

Skull Rock Alliance
1727 items
Skull Rock Horde
1288 items

Doomhowl Alliance
5787 items
Doomhowl Horde
6788 items

As always, I can post exact numbers for clarity upon request. Again, thanks to @Vanillataur for explaining that you can get more accurate statistics by delineating by race as well as class in the same search query.

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Thank you. I can supply the information that the EU Era realms have stagnated. There’s now roughly the same number of players and Auctions on the Era HC realms whenever I look.
I find it interesting that the developement is not the same.
Actually EU numbers for the Era HC realms are sligthly more than the US numbers, I find this interesting as well - no idea of the implications or explanations for this.
The AH numbers I cannot compare, as I do not use Auctionator, but just an empty search.

EDIT:
As of yesterday something has happened to EU HC.
On one of the servers (Stitches) Horde is dying off, and seemingly rerolling on the other one (Nek’Rosh). The number of players/auctions remain roughly the same, but the distribution is different. I think that in lack of a merge from Blizz, players are now “merging” themselves on Nek’Rosh.

An explanatory note to this: In EU Stitches was the largest server with up to 9 layers, and Stitches Horde was where the streamers went. It took a huge blow when they left, and Stitches Horde has been the lowest realm/faction ever since.

Edit 2:

Just out of curiosity I’ll count again next time a WB drops.

EDIT 2A - Friday @ Zandalar buff only 8 pm. server time (server Nek’Rosh):
WBs does not seem to make a big difference. More players overall, but not much.
Strangely more Alliances, fewer Hordes.
Also more higher levels online, but fewer lower levels.
Seems like players just go on their low-level alts in the daytime.
This might be a fluke, as Friday is not normally buff-time, and more party-day than play-day. I’ll check next Wednesday again.

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Friday, June 6th, 2025 @ 17:02 (5:02 PM) EST
[Defias Pillager]
Alliance (284 Online) Horde (96 Online)
[Skull Rock]
Alliance (169 Online) Horde (115 Online)
[Doomhowl] Alliance (1,174 Online) Horde (1,718 Online)

Auction listings, according to the Auctionator addon:

Defias Pillager Alliance
2883 items
Defias Pillager Horde
778 items

Skull Rock Alliance
1890 items
Skull Rock Horde
1316 items

Doomhowl Alliance
6031 items
Doomhowl Horde
7109 items

It won’t be something I can do consistently every time, but I figured I’d check it since they were dropping, as it’s the peak time on the server.

How do you do that?

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Our numbers are very similar, which I find surprising. I’d have thought many more played in US.

Stitches:
Population: Ally 160 - Horde 81
Auctions: Ally 5234 - Horde 754

Nek’Rosh (my realm):
Population: Ally 247 - Horde 147
Auctions: Ally 7673 - Horde 4554

During WB on Nek’Rosh:
Population: Ally 339 - Horde 153

Go to AH and talk to the AH guy :wink: put nothing into any search fields, press Search, scroll to bottom, and see it showing eg. 50 of 6370 auctions.

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Saturday, June 7th, 2025 @ 12:16 PM EST
[Defias Pillager]
Alliance (286 Online) Horde (86 Online)
[Skull Rock]
Alliance (187 Online) Horde (124 Online)
[Doomhowl]
Alliance (1,197 Online) Horde (1,811 Online)

Auction listings, according to the Auctionator addon:

Defias Pillager Alliance
2732 items
Defias Pillager Horde
328 items

Skull Rock Alliance
1825 items
Skull Rock Horde
1459 items

Doomhowl Alliance
5560 items
Doomhowl Horde
7007 items

1 Like
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Main blizzard mistake was to open fresh HC realms. DP was alive and had a lot of layers before anniversary release. Fresh HC server was not really needed, now it has less population and layers then DP before anniversary release

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I agree. Now, should they merge?