Debunking the "Anti-RDF" arguments!

[Gosakii-aegwynn]

That’s a long wall of text to try and pretend retail doesn’t exist. Sorry but the less slippery this slope is the better.

[Saralocks-thrall (Saralocks)]

@Confidence-heartseeker

You used to have to work to experience the end game content.

So what is wrong with blocking people from queuing for Heroics using Dungeon Finder? And Normal Dungeons aren’t the “end-game” content.

[Confidence-heartseeker]

@Manuredps-benediction

So the 4 strangers i get in LFG is somehow different than RDF?

The dungeon magically changes if i use RDF?

Yes, because it made them more abundant. If you read my post about Wintergrasp’s abundance, too, it makes sense.

Access to everything easy all the time waters it down.

[Kastayoni-benediction]

there’s nothing wrong with the horse and buggy

ppl r just lazy smh

[Bossfight-draka]

make RDF server-bound and doesn’t teleport you to the dungeon for TBC+Wrath dungeons. it actually would improve the social aspect of the game, but if it’s cross-server absolutely no one will care who they team up with it might as well just be a group of NPCs you will never see that character again. blizzard absolutely has the means to make RDF fit into classic content. this idea “you don’t have to use it” is dumb considering it will kill LFM groups one of the very few avenue you have to see more people from your realm will die overnight

[Axxo-skyfury]

@Saralocks-thrall

RDF Removes the social aspect of the game.

First of all, it actually doesn’t. You, as the player, have a choice, to choose to be social with others or just ignore the chat completely. I made many friends in the past through Dungeon Finder as well as before Dungeon Finder was even added, and I have noticed no change in this. In fact, even today, in Retail, I still chat and have a friendly laugh with random people in Dungeon Finder.

The social aspect of forming groups has nothing to do with whether you chat with your party members while in the instance. It’s worrying that people seem to genuinely believe this is what is meant when they discuss how Dungeon Finder impacts social experiences in WoW.

While leveling over hours, days, and weeks, it’s not uncommon to run into the same person or people from time to time, be it for group quests or instances. This shared experience over time can lead to a form of social bonding. Heck, I still remember during the original TBC leveling a Priest with a friend of mine on a Warrior. We would often run into this shaman while questing in the open world or in instances, so much that it felt as though we were leveling together, and we became friends (Hey Zarth! Wherever you are now).

With Dungeon Finder, while it’s possible that you’ll run into the same person or people in instance groups, you won’t run into people who aren’t on your server outside of those instance groups, and even if you can befriend them, you cannot cross-realm party or queue, so this is somewhat impactful for some people’s social experience in the game.

@Saralocks-thrall

RDF destroys the communities.

No, it actually doesn’t. Back at WoW’s peaked, the servers were pretty much, at large, almost impossible to keep up with on who was on your server. At its peak in Wrath of the Lich King, WoW had over 10 million subscribers, estimate. And with that many people, it was basically near impossible to keep up with who was on the server. The only communities that did matter was who was within the guild, which still holds today.

It depends on what you mean by communities. If you consider guilds that are focused on Dungeon Leveling, then I can see a compelling case being made.

@Saralocks-thrall

You can’t make friends in RDF

This one is entirely false. You have the power to make friends, in or outside using RDF.

Already addressed in the point above.

@Saralocks-thrall

RDF makes the game easier.

All RDF does is makes grouping for a dungeon little easier. It doesn’t mean the dungeon will be easier as to manually forming a group then walking to the dungeon entrance.

I haven’t seen this point raised in an anti-RDF context. WotLK Classic is already far easier than WoW Classic or TBC Classic, to the point that it’s a lot closer to Retail, where there’s little fear of dying while pulling lots of stuff.

@Saralocks-thrall

RDF means we can’t pick who we want in our group.

People should know RDF is “Random Dungeon Finder. If people don’t know what “random” means, please grab a dictionary. All it does is randomly fills you in with 4 other players to complete a dungeon. If RDF did get added, there is nothing stopping you from manually finding a group with your friends or guilds, or just other randoms out in the world.

We can definitely pick who we want in our groups. You can form a 5-person party and queue for random or specific dungeons with Dungeon Finder.

@Saralocks-thrall

RDF is why retail is in a bad state it is in.

Sorry, but this is an entire false accusation. Retail is in a bad place at the moment because of things that have been added over the course throughout Legion, Battle for Azeroth and Shadowlands, were poorly implemented. The intense RNG of Legion, the broken warforging/titanforging of Legion and Battle for Azeroth, the removal of tier sets from Legion up to Patch 9.3, just to name some. Dungeon Finder had nothing to do with the current state of retail World of Warcraft. Even Warlords of Draenor was at a massive sub decline, mostly due to it was abandoned before it had its first major patch.

This is quite subjective anyway. Retail, as far as I can tell, is far more popular still than the Classic series, so just because some people who play Classic like to bash on Retail doesn’t really mean it’s in a bad state. Further, while the peak population of WoW may have been during Cataclysm, that doesn’t necessarily mean that something suddenly changed with the game that caused people to leave, but who knows?

I personally think that the Dungeon Finder did and does reduce shared social experiences, which can be seen as a negative, especially for those who may be drawn to this type of game specifically seeking shared social experiences.

@Saralocks-thrall

Closing Statement: These are just some of the things I have seen on the forums about RDF that people seem to make false claims about. If anymore pop up, I’ll be sure to update this post.

Cool post! Glad you’re thinking about these things and sharing them with the community.

[Manuredps-benediction]

So you think making things less abundant is better for the game?

This is what leads to retails AP grind systems and why retail has been bad.

MMOs now are designed about respecting players time.

If i want to log on and spam dungeons i should be able to, the dungeon should be the hard part not the group forming.

This is why FF14 has done so well.

You can log on and do the things you want without wasting time.

[Saralocks-thrall (Saralocks)]

@Manuredps-benediction

the dungeon should be the hard part not the group forming.

I wish I could give you a million likes just for this comment here

[Bossfight-draka]

WoW shouldn’t be like FF14 though, I’m playing FF14 now and it might as well be a solo game compared to my experience with classic actually making friends. it sure is convenient just clicking a button and forming into a group of randoms from various servers that stomp a dungeon in record time but it’s not the same experience as finding my first classic guild through a fun ZF group. I’d like server-bound RDF because I want to see more people from my realm it is more meaningful playing with players you can see in Dalaran

[Alzar-whitemane]

It didn’t though. Back in Wrath originally any decently sized realm was rampant with having issues being able to actually phase into a dungeon because instance servers were at capacity. Dungeons were massive in Wrath because their attitude with using dungeons as the vessel to push the whole play the patch, not the expansion concept via emblems.

[Bolognapony-grobbulus]

@Menotaur-grobbulus

Theres nothing wrong with LFG. People are just lazy and don’t want to use it.

It works fine.

This is 90% of their comments… EG: I’m too lazy to argue a valid counter and I’m bored stuck at work statement.

[Anderusen-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Hey look, opinions.

Neat!

[Popuko-proudmoore (Popuko)]

This whole post debunks nothing.

[Saralocks-thrall (Saralocks)]

Or the fact it is 7.16am in the morning here in Sydney and Oceanic Servers are pretty much quiet due to people either waking up to go to work or people still be asleep. Bet you never thought about this one.

EDIT: Also, speaking of work, I’m off. Thanks for the reminder. (Oh wait, it’s day off )

[Warrantyvoid-arugal]

Hello fellow Aussie, I too have the day off

[Saralocks-thrall (Saralocks)]

Day Off Party

[Warrantyvoid-arugal]

You now it, been up all night playing wow

[Confidence-heartseeker]

@Manuredps-benediction

So you think making things less abundant is better for the game?

Some things, yes. The same reason we have weekly raid lockouts. Nothing in a game, not even gear, NEEDS to be scarce, but scarcity adds value.

[Saralocks-thrall (Saralocks)]

I think that is subjective, mostly due to “what the item is”.

[Aervotic-stormrage]

They’re strange to you because they have an ulterior motive that they don’t want you to know about. They all have guilds or friends that make A LOT of money off of GDKP dungeon runs and they realize RDF would take a lot of their business away.