looking to have a hypothetical discussion about this.
If blizzard decided they intend to not implement the debuff limit (because they would actually have to implement it into 7.3.5 since it doesnt exist on it)
how would you react?
first we need to look at what happens
in PvE. more debuffs (ALOT MORE) will be placed on mobs.
this will cause things (if left untuned) to die MUCH faster than they would have in vanilla.
in PvP.. realistically nothing happens except for the final bosses in AV dying faster.
so. if all that this means is raid scenario enemy NPCs die faster. why not just increase their health respectively to compensate?
Pros to no debuff limit, MORE specs can put out more throughput in a raiding scene while not allowing them to outshine the actual pure DPS specs. it simply lets hybrids be a little better.
Cons are, if limit not introduced and content not buffed accordingly, the content will feel very boring and stale.
what are your thoughts on a debuff limit not being introduced? Aside from "not in vanilla" WHICH I UNDERSTAND IS LEGITIMATE. Don't get me wrong. we all want as perfect as a vanilla as possible. but if blizzard decided to do this. how would you feel about its effects.
Why would things necessarily die faster? What debuffs and dots were worth it that weren't being used?
Not having a debuff limit sounds like opening a can of worms.
As much as it was frustrating. And more so for some classes than others. I think it would be a pretty significant change to have no debuff limit.
Realistically how much of a raid DPS increase would it be? 5% 10% 30%?
What are the unintended consequences? Would stacking warlocks, nightfall and a SP result in a massive increase?
Realistically how much of a raid DPS increase would it be? 5% 10% 30%?
What are the unintended consequences? Would stacking warlocks, nightfall and a SP result in a massive increase?
10/30/2018 07:40 AMPosted by Grogzo265432Why would things necessarily die faster? What debuffs and dots were worth it that weren't being used?
deep wounds comes to mind
holy priests throwing up SW:P
hunters actually being able to serpent sting
paladins putting up all of their seal debuffs
i'm sure there are many more.
10/30/2018 07:44 AMPosted by Hatchmark10/30/2018 07:40 AMPosted by Grogzo265432Why would things necessarily die faster? What debuffs and dots were worth it that weren't being used?
deep wounds comes to mind
holy priests throwing up SW:P
hunters actually being able to serpent sting
paladins putting up all of their seal debuffs
i'm sure there are many more.
Rogues putting up their poisons.
Well blizzard said it was a technical limitation. They've already increased other technical limitations, so what about this one?
10/30/2018 07:47 AMPosted by MenardWell blizzard said it was a technical limitation. They've already increased other technical limitations, so what about this one?
well thats my thought
the problem IS. because it would be a problem.
is blizzard needing to gauge how much of a buff this gives to raid dps on average. and blizzard buffing raid content in respond to this.
Just like any topic of changing something in classic WoW, this would need to be tested and tested in order to not have the core feel of classic swing one way or another. If it did swing a certain way, i would rather have it swing to more difficult as classic is going to be a cake walk once people get in raids.
I want the 8 debuff limit then 16 at the same amount of time between patches.
10/30/2018 07:44 AMPosted by Hatchmark10/30/2018 07:40 AMPosted by Grogzo265432Why would things necessarily die faster? What debuffs and dots were worth it that weren't being used?
deep wounds comes to mind
holy priests throwing up SW:P
hunters actually being able to serpent sting
paladins putting up all of their seal debuffs
i'm sure there are many more.
I played a hunter so that is what I know, if a boss takes >2 minutes to kill, serpent sting is not worth it since it very quickly drains you of mana and its damage to mana ratio is abhorred.
Interestingly enough.
is it even simple for blizzard to code that back into mobs?
Im not a programmer. so im curious
is this something they would have to add into every single mob file or is it something they can sort of "blanket" to effect everything at the same time.
is it even simple for blizzard to code that back into mobs?
Im not a programmer. so im curious
is this something they would have to add into every single mob file or is it something they can sort of "blanket" to effect everything at the same time.
Way back in the day I played on a server with no Debuff limit. I think Ragnaros had about 1.6m health to compensate (original rag had 1.1m). Kill times were comparable to 1.12 private servers of today.
Not saying anything one way or the other, just throwing that data out there. Bosses would need approx 50% more hp to compensate.
Not saying anything one way or the other, just throwing that data out there. Bosses would need approx 50% more hp to compensate.
People need to bear in mind that the debuff limit was 90% of the reason raids stacked certain classes and gatekept all the others from participating. I don't see why we can't just do away with it and adjust the health pools of enemy mobs and bosses to compensate. You want to know why people memed about 2 button rotations in vanilla? Debuff limits. Can't even use half your abilities because the 20 warriors in the raid all have their bleeds up.
10/30/2018 07:48 AMPosted by Hatchmark10/30/2018 07:47 AMPosted by MenardWell blizzard said it was a technical limitation. They've already increased other technical limitations, so what about this one?
well thats my thought
the problem IS. because it would be a problem.
is blizzard needing to gauge how much of a buff this gives to raid dps on average. and blizzard buffing raid content in respond to this.
Yeah but Blizzard then just became picky and choosy with their technical limitations around the game, which isn't good.
If people want the same technical limitations as 2006, go pull out your old TV sized monitor and call your ISP to give you dial up.
10/30/2018 07:56 AMPosted by AltimaPeople need to bear in mind that the debuff limit was 90% of the reason raids stacked certain classes and gatekept all the others from participating. I don't see why we can't just do away with it and adjust the health pools of enemy mobs and bosses to compensate. You want to know why people memed about 2 button rotations in vanilla? Debuff limits. Can't even use half your abilities because the 20 warriors in the raid all have their bleeds up.
Because it’s not vanilla.
Rogues would be hitting a lot harder since it would allow a slot of them to run deadly posion as well as some on hit effect weapons at least in early raiding.
It would have a rather large knock on effect... every raid would need retuning.
It would have a rather large knock on effect... every raid would need retuning.
Anyway we can test the debuff limit in the demo? It would be a good indication as to if they will intentionally implement the debuff limit into the game.
I'll volunteer to make a warlock and test debuff limit with y'all.
Cya friday!
Cya friday!
8 debuffs at launch please. Keep it as it was.