So anyone else find this to be such a bad idea?
3 Likes
Such a bad idea. Capstones should be desirable because people want them, not because they are mandatory to make the class function.
Leveling a DK is going to feel like poop, and max level DKs just lost a huge amount of flexibility in the class tree.
4 Likes
It’s basically been a capstone without being a capstone already. The trade off is a lot more flexibility in 20 & below and that’s a fine trade off.
Death’s Echo isn’t mandatory to make the class function.
An actual capstone that’s mandatory to make a class (or spec) function is Avatar with Mountain Thane.
But none of this matters because it’s literally directly in a spot that it’ll always be taken. Whether Osmosis, Death’s Echo, or Insidious Chill is in that capstone point objectively doesn’t matter. You will always take Death’s Echo just like you’ll always take Avatar, Divine Resonance, Death Chakram, etc.
TL;DR: Death’s Echo as a capstone is fine with the 2nd updated tree.
1 Like
They are mocking us now.
All it can be.
5 Likes
Next week’s alpha notes:
“New DK Capstone: The ability to wield a weapon.”
5 Likes
dont give em ideas like that man
echo should be near the top of the tree
1 Like
These changes are two steps forwards, two to three steps backwards.
Deaths Echo is not a capstone worthy talent in its current iteration.
Lets use Death and Decay for example. You now have two charges of it, in places where you use this on cooldown such as M+ packs. You gain one extra use, thats it. They didnt even have the decency to throw a small bit of CD reduction onto the affected talents to spice it up.
Mindfreeze
If every other class has to spend a talent point to get an interupt this change is FINE, if not which I believe will be the case. We have just lost another point. There is almost no content where an Interrupt is not needed outside of raid bosses, and usually they have some kind of add that needs you to shut its damn mouth.
Every damn time I read these new changes, I come away disappointed. Is it no surprise that the DK population is dwindling? Less DK’s exist as a Class in total than Ret paladins when I last looked at Warcraft logs, raiding at least.
I think it sounds worse than it really is when messing around with the calculator. None of these changes have me excited to play my DK in TWW though.
The same classes that are good now will be good in TWW and DK will still be bad/average at best.
Can only wield weapons when in death and decay*
Next build: Weapon stays equipped for 4 seconds after leaving death and decay.
/s
Could take a page out of the DH playbook and let Death’s Echo give us two charges of everything else, including Abom Limb, Blinding Sleet, Gorefiend’s Grasp, and Asphyxiate. Since it’s totally balanced for VDH, no harm for DKs, right? /s
Blizzard again with the ‘struck gold’ mentality about making us stand in DnD. They love the concept so much it’s now a capstone. This is what they think of your feedback.
We have no flexibility in our tree on live. At least on alpha filling out the tree feels like “I have to take more gate 1/2 talents? I already have everything of note. Hooray.”
You can optimally take every capstone but one with the most recent alpha changes, and it tracks to have probably our single highest value talent be a capstone.
Is it an auto-pick? Sure. But a lot of talents are auto-picks. The key to making auto pick talents successful is eliminating the friction from picking them. If death’s echo was a capstone locked behind a 2 rank talent that gave +1% speed, I’d be pissed too.
There is also a world where blood gets Gorefiend’s back and trades death’s echo for abom limb in m+ for raw damage since all the other capstones add survivability to you or your group.
2 Likes
In fairness, the issue of a “mandatory” capstone isn’t exactly a DK specific issue. Coming from warrior, we’re basically locked in to certain talents. It’s not ideal, but it’s how Blizz seem to be designing. It doesn’t mean there are no ways to express creativity in the talents, even if certain choices seem to be made for you.
Keep advocating for change though, nothings final, there’s hope yet.
It increases cleave uptime and fixes our mobility issues, I’d say it absolutely IS mandatory.
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It is very much required for blood.
At first I didnt mind it but then I realized how it’ll affect leveling. Yeah I definitely agree to reposition death’s echo to at least be in the center of the class tree
Agreed totally. Forgive my ignorance but which other melee have a capstone which requires you to remain in an area (lol) for all 3 specs of said melee to play optimally? If memory serves this is indeed a truely unique problem to DK. All 3 specs completely hamstrung by this BS.
The mechanics of D&D are irrelevant to my point. I agree, having to stand in a marked area for your AoE to function is terrible. But a move like Avatar, for warriors, one of our main cooldowns is all the way at the bottom.
The issue of capstones being locked in is a general issue with Blizzard’s choice in design. The issue of D&D feeling bad is a whole separate pain in the patootie.
Want to trade Avatar for DnD cleave? If you don’t think this is a fair trade ask yourself why.
1 Like
I understand you’re aggrieved by the state of that move. But the function of the spell is not relevant to the point I made.
If you were seeking a parallel you’d ask me if there were any other classes that had a capstone be a simple extra use of an undesirable spell. I don’t know the answer to that, I don’t have all the talent trees memorized. That may be a unique DK headache.
1 Like