Death Knight Lore

Lore Story Forum
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Where do Death Knights’ powers come from exactly?

So where do their powers come from exactly? From the Lich King? If so where do they get their powers after Arthas was defeated? Bolvar? Doubtful. So I’m assuming they have their own innate power.

Can their magics be learned independently by living people or for the Forsaken, undead, non-Death Knights? Or do all knights have to be hand picked by other knights and raised to be a Death Knight?

How are they different from undead? Do their bodies decay overtime? Or do they stay pristine if they maintain it, via feeding their eternal hunger, eating food (according to wowpedia they eat meat) or are their bodies naturally preserved by whatever dark magic they wield?

In regards to their eternal hunger… what can sate this? Does this require inflicting pain and suffering on sentient beings only? Or can this be sated by hurting and killing animals? Does killing, by itself sate it? Or would a death knight need to prolong the suffering of their victim, before killing them, in order to more efficiently sate their hunger? If all they need to do is inflicting suffering on any living thing, could fishing and killing a fish help ease the pain from the hunger? A lot of fish maybe?

Finally, what I’m most interested in: what skills can they acquire besides martial abilities and Death Knight magic? Is there any lore reasons why a Death Knight wouldn’t be able to learn arcane magic or demonic/warlock type magic? Could knights undergo monk training? Shamanism? I would doubt that they could learn light or nature magic due to them being Death Knights, but Forsaken can apparently learn light magic.

And this is all ignoring what ever new Shadowlands lore might have been made up by the… new writers recently. Unless they didn’t change anything about Death Knight lore recently let’s pretend we’re talking about Legion DK lore and back. And because I play Classic WoW, this is a better approach to discussing this for me. But if nothing new was added for Shadowlands in regards to DK lore I guess this paragraph is pointless.

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Hmm, my guess from what I know of the lore is, that DK is a dedicated martial skill that leaves no room for other type of Cross skills powers (IMO), just like a DH can’t be anything else other than a DH or even the Evoker… because of where they draw their power and how they channel it.

However that being said, in Shadow Lands it was reveled that Necromancy is more of a Craft /Profession (at least that’s how I understood it) like Alchemy, Scrying or Enchanting that can use any source of power to animate corpses… example is Calia Menethil and her unique Light powered undeath.

If I understood this correctly this would explain, how a DK uses his Necromancy throw his Rune Blade in 3 ways:

Blood Magic: That the lore indicates that is a form of tortured Life Magic that uses blood as a power source and why I assume the Emerald Nightmare looks bloody red and like twisted tortured scared flesh.

Frost Magic: Like Frost mages pull frost energy from the energy of creation around them, Shaman from the elements. Frost death knights pull frost energy for the land of the dead.

Unholy Magic: Is basically self explanatory dealing with everything related to necromancy. Diseases, raising the dead, killing things. I suspect with the DF expansion they could also be drawing power from the Realm of Elemental Decay with their Death Magic, like Warlock Affliction spec seems to do through Void Magic…maybe?

The origin of these Magic of Death can easily be noted as you play in Shadow Lands (IMO) and if you take Death as a transaction like the Brokers do it makes even more sence.
However since sadly Shadow Lands was not too specific on anything and even if, it was tie in with all events in WC history without any real context (IN GAME) take what I say as a player who read the quest and understood it like this… not as an official answer.

Also yes, I’m a nerd and love all types of worldbuilding lore! lol Sorry for the overly explain of what I think would maybe answer you question from my “limited” point of view of what I could find and understand. :sweat_smile: :person_shrugging:

NOTE (full speculation from what I understood in Shadow Lands):

I suspect following this new lore, treating Necromancy as a Craft or Profession that can use any source power, the true origin of how the DK draw this powers has to do with SL and their connection to its realms… using Domination Magic through its “runes” its my guess that the First Necromancers adapted through scrying, Revendreth Sin extraction torture magic into what we know in Azeroth as Blood Magic. DK Frost Magic I’m really not sure but I would think its either connected to Zovaal, the Winter Queen realm or both? And Unholy is no brainer it has to come from originally Maldraxxus. All being modify and perfect throw Necromancy to affect our World. Maybe this was the Crime Zovaal commited, who can say as we never found out?

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All Magics can use Necromancy whether it be Death, Light, Order, Disorder, Life or Shadow.

Same goes for Holy, Arcane, Shadow, Fel and Nature Magics.

Ardenweald is an instance of Nature Death Magic while Bastion and the Brokers are an instance of Arcane Death Magic. Revendreth is an instance of Arcane Shadow Death Magic. Mueh’zala and the Nathrezim use pure Shadow Death Magic.

The Maw uses Necrotic Death Magic and Maldraxxus uses Necromantic Death Magic. The Scourge and Death Knights combine both.

Unholy Death Knights use Decay and Necromantic Death Magic, Blood Death Knights use Life Magic tortured by Necrotic Death Magic and Frost Death Knights use Water Magic tortured into Ice by Necrotic Death Magic.

Zovaal was thrown into the Maw for attempting to conquer the other Cosmic Forces and was shackled with Domination Magic(by the Primus) which he later reverse engineered to control the Mawsworn and create Necrotic Death Magic as well as make the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne.

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Interesting… never knew this.

Nono… this is exactly what I’m looking for. I want more lore so I can better roleplay in my mind when I’m playing my DK.

What lore suggests that a demon hunter can’t learn arcane magic or skills from other classes such as rogue, or hunter, etc? I always assumed illidan, being a demon hunter, still had magical abilities from when he was a mage 10k years ago. Though most of his magic seems to be fel magic, but him knowing arcane and warlock magic would explain some things he did in WC3.

Huh? How is that different from what frost mages do?

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If there is one thing I feel bad about its how Death Knights cool Runes and all the lore behind them were all retconned for cosmic death realm shenanigans.

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This is why I specified I wanted to discuss pre-Shadowlands DK lore… but ppl not really reading that part i guess

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Frost Mages use Water Magic cooled into Ice by Arcane Order Magic.

Mages like Evokers are all about Order Magic though unlike Evokers they specialize in Arcane Order Magic rather than 5 Types of Order Magic: Arcane Time Order Magic, Arcane Frost Order Magic, Earth Order Magic, Nature Order Magic and Order Magic mixed with Life Magic.

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Agreed. I think there is no lore and its more of a gameplay limitation than anything… but I’ll let you decide on that, specially if you only want to focus on Pre-Shadow Lands Lore. Speaking on focusing on that…

I remember something interesting that I forgot about Illidan began Training as a Druid, then a Mage… shown in Legion by Xe’ra in the Memories Quests were you play as Illidan… when he starts to suck the magic killing his students he starts to develop what looks like his pseudo Proto-Demon Hunter abilities using only arcane to stop an Demon Invasion.

So one could speculate that he combine both his Druid and Arcane training into what we know as a Demon Hunter Class to channel Fel. (If you haven’t play it its in YouTube the whole quest)

So I would guess if we focus on the First Generation of DK that were raise using the Souls of Orc Warlocks into dead Stormwind Knights.

Second Generation was made by Renegade Paladins and the most powerful Arthas himself…who’s training was originally that of a Paladin… this would support your theory in the Lore that Hero Classes can in fact learn new skills and is made up various Martial and Spellcrafting Arts combine.

One could even argue that every time we get New Talents in a Skill tree or a New Specialization is a new skill learn and adapted to that Class! (IMO)

I think this last part is all I can remember that existed before SL… hope it helps.

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I have nothing to add to this thread.

But your name sent me on the weirdest nostalgia trip because I knew I recognized it in some deep recess of my brain.

I love it.

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… When was this lore added to the game?

If you’re talking about the quest, in Legion, where you go back in time and play as, balling out of control mage, illidan, arcane blasting everyone and killing thousands of demons, then yes, I did that. Thought it was pretty cool. Legion was a good expansion in general.

I don’t think that’s what the implication was… but I do know that … at least before the last few expansions, that Fel magic was considered pretty close to arcane magic, but a chaotic, ultra destructive version. Doubt it has much to do with nature magic though and I feel like his demon hunter stuff was just fel magic mixed with martial skills. But I could be wrong.

Ha! That’s great. I’m missing the last “n” though… but Blizzard’s name character count wouldn’t let me have the full name.

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Yeah that was speculation (as I understood it at that time) on my part, because when he goes Arcane ballistic Blasting Demons, there is one skill that stood out to me that he does that DH Class uses that literally called Warhawk, but your right it could be taken from Hunter Class or other Martial skill he knew too, as they are a similar skill to this.

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Oh okay. I see.

I always regret not having had played Demon Hunters in Legion… and skipping legion in general cuz WoD left a bad taste in my mouth… sigh.

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One thing you’re not going to get is exact answers are items not specifically spelled out Blizzard doesn’t go into this detail for ANY class.

There are several generations of Death Knights which have very little do do with each other… The first generation was the spirits of Orc Warlocks possessing the bodies of slain Stormwind Knights. This is pre-Arthas and even pre-Ner-zhul.

There are no lore references for such. Take this as you will. Here’s the thing I have zero bupkiss interest in a character’s back story if their present story hasn’t hooked me in. I would focus on a character’s present story and pretty much forget about the back story unless it makes for an interesting part of the present.

I’m pretty sure that the requirement is that the victim be sentient. This might not apply to the Bolvar generation, this is a pretty good explanation as to why they start out weaker than the Arthas models.

You are asking the question backwards, there’s no lore reason that suggest that they should. The only ones that had a different variety of magic were those who were warlocks originally in the First Generation.

Having Arthas’s sword be a mourneblade (Another Elric reference!) created with Shadowlands Domination magic is pretty much the meat of the change…it’s not a trivial one. But that’s not a revelation that applies to Classic WOTLK play.

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Well… shamans get their powers by communing with the spirits. Mages, have inherent magical aptitude that allows them to channel energy that is inherent to the universe, Priests and Paladins get their powers from the Light (Or I guess… the Naaru -_-)

Are these even anywhere near the WoW class we call Death Knights? Or were they completely different?

Well, it’s my own Death Knight’s story, and my narrative has me asking these questions to figure out if it is realistic given known lore.

The what now?

Can’t pretty much anyone become a mage? Or does it require inherent, born ability? I would think that, at least, if a Death Knight was a mage when they were alive they would still have magical affinity, and they’re already doing Death Knight magic, so they have the ability to do magic and the knowledge of the arcane from their past life. So to me it makes sense that if a mage was killed and turned into a DK that they would still be able to use arcane magic… such as shooting frost bolts, turning invisible, casting magical shields that protect from physical damage, etc.

Interesting…

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I’ve always presumed the latter, that working of magic of any kind arcane, divine, or primal requires “The Gift”, the ability and/or sensitivity to such forces. That’s why spellcasters have to do such a major search for apprentices and frequently go to any means to obtain the one they find. My fire mage’s back story is that she was literally sold to the Kirin Tor (a relatively common way that apprentices were acquired back in the day.) In extreme cases, apprentices were kidnapped by their masters. In her case her powers had spontaneously manifested and her parents were glad to be rid of such a strange child.

Warlocks may well be noncasters who acquired the Gift through a bargain with dark powers, in this case the Legion. Or mages who tired of the long hours and study and labor went through the easy method offered.

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Original Scourge Death Knights got their power from being corrupted paladins. Almost every skill they had in WC3 was an inversion of a paladin skill.

Why? WotLK lore was dumb, too.
IDK why you think “lol gnome hunter becomes DK!!!” is good writing and “DKs were invented in Maldraxxus” is bad.

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That’s quite the leap there. I never said anything even close to that.

All the writing post-WC3 has been pretty bad. But they at least mostly just stuck to WC3 lore when it came to universe building, The new writing team is a completely different beast and is happy to retcon anything or make up completely new lore.

I simply have no interest in their writing and I enjoy the universe as it is in Classic, for the most part. It’s just my opinion of what I prefer. Am I not allowed to have an opinion?

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I’m not aware of mages needing to have innate talent as a requirement. It might help get you off the ground in most cases, but it’s generally portrayed as something that requires a lot of practice and study. So far, I think evokers are the only magic wielders that have their powers be an innate feature.

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New lore is how the story grows. How it moves beyond just being WC3 extended.

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You need the first otherwise all the study won’t get you anywhere. My mage still needed the study in order to control and expand her powers. Remember that you aren’t starting the Evokers at “level 1” they were powerful magic warriors that got put on ice.

It’s what the Death Knight experience used to be before the level squish.