Unless a character specifically counters toon force.
Beerus being one such example.
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Thatâs a completely dumb take though. It sounds smart but it doesnât match with what weâve seen from the characters.
Okay but presumably they donât have prep time.
âEvil Supermanâ has been defeated countless numbers of times, from Justice Lord Superman, to Injustice Superman, to whatever other variant of the character you want to take. If he was really as powerful as claimed he shouldnât ever be losing at all.
Their way of analyzing these encounters is absurd anyways. They take one or two feats from some writer bad at math and assume that has any bearing on what the overall creative intent is.
An angel is nothing before a Death God.
I mean, letâs be real here. The Lich King is essentially one of the only characters in WoW to have defeated the player characters, who have killed gods. The only other entity on Lich Kingâs power level would probably be something like Argus, which is a god.
And yes, yes, âLei Shen could defeat Arthas blah blah blahâ, first off, thatâs sus and simply meant to hype an out-of-nowhere villain in an expansion no one otherwise cared about, and second of all, Lei Shen himself slew kings and gods.
This is all relative to some guy is like⊠a guy. He got his finger cut-off and withered into an eyeball. Kekw.
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Lich king all day
True, but it has to be since both characters have had so many versions or upgrades or multidimensional or time variants that you have to boil it down to the ideal of each character.
Well, either they do the quantifiable feats thats available or canon, or they do the âidealâ path of comparison. In the case of Goku vs Superman they had to do both because they knew the fandom wouldnt be satisfied no matter what they did. Both characters have such a large fandom its almost better not to do a comparison.
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Yes, because Goku would lose to Superman.
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Hereâs the way I look at it - Toriyama intends for Goku to be able to surpass Superman. Toriyama wrote Superman into Dragonball as Jiren. Jiren is a boring character, but heâs a super strong alien superhero of justice flying around in a spandex uniform who is the supposed to be the most powerful fighter in the multiverse, surpassing even the level of the gods. Even the gods fear Jiren. Initially Jiren is dunking on Goku, but then the fight between them allows Goku to unlock another BS transformation.
The idea of Superman has no limits thing is false. Superman has limits. Goku will power scale to whatever absurd level his opponent is at, unlocking some new bonkers transformation. Pretty much the only time Goku loses is if his opponent doesnât give him enough time to reach his new power up.
When one of the writers of the two characters throws their opinion into the ring, Iâm inclined in that direction.
I will say that these power level debates, while mostly pointless, did result in the glorious Ultra Instinct memes / âShaggy uses more than 1% of his powerâ which get me rolling.
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To be fair thatâs not that big of an accomplishment when you consider how many times weâve been CCâd without reprieve and only lived because the quest villain had to twirl their mustache and walk away.
Weâre kind of the biggest sucker in this story.
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Superman has self-imposed limits, thats canonized in comics. Darkseid once taught him to take away those mental blocks and his power progression was only stopped by a total DC comics revamp (aka the DC âcreatorsâ pressed the reset button).
Power level debates are more for fun, its just that the fandoms can get very ârabidâ. And really, if you boil it down, a writer can pretty much write anything he wants anyway. Gokuâs creator can say hes more powerful than Superman, and then all of a sudden Supermanâs creator says otherwise.
What makes the power level comparisons possible is the necessities of the story. DBZ is compelling because of the limits Goku has to break. Superman comics are more compelling when his fights are resolved without his overpowering strength.
OFF Topic: As far as Shaggy is concerned, what scares me about him as a character is that he isnt a normal character, his supposed power doesnt come from canonical sources like his creator. His supposed power comes from the collective push of his fans on the internet, what iâve dubbed Meme-Force, which is much like Toon-force for Popeye and Bugs bunny. Where superpowerful characters are limited or dictated by their creator/writers even with Toonforce, Meme-force is all about the crowd pushing a narrative without input from a specific characterâs creator.
Funny thing, Ultra Instinct Shaggy has been acknowledge by Warner Brothers. They literally have the voice actor for Shaggy voicing the line that heâs only using 1% of his power in their Smash Brothers beat-em-up game.
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This is sadly something i agree with them with.
Superman is a broken character. Itâs basically like a kid making up an unbeatable persona that somehow developers an immunity to anything you can do to him. Itâs dumb.
Goku is the far better character. But thatâs also why he loses.
Yup, but the originator of that power is crowd-funded, lol. Imagine if say Saitama or Goku were made internet powerful and the creators accepted it and made it canon. It would be chaos, lol
I really love Arthas as much of the next guy, but he gets absolutely smoked in this fight.
Please pay no attention to my name, and donât Google where it comes from either.
Thank you.
Jokes aside, at the end of the day, the Lich King (assuming weâre going with Arthas, anyways) is mortally frail due to the Helmet of Dominationâs physical aspect and Sauron is literally in a class of angels (albiet fallen/lesser) in Tolkienâs lore.
It also doesnât help that Arthas is a man, a race of which is particularly susceptible to Sauronâs particular brand of influences.
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I woulda put him against Kain from Legacy of Kain. Both carry soul eating swords (Frostmourne vs. The Soul Reaver) and both are immensely powerful undead.
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LETS GO LICH KING!
LK got nothing on Sauron
Thatâs a completely inaccurate impression you have of the character.
That being said, Tolkien tends to showcase the subtle usage of power rather than big, showy moments, and the movies did a poor job of establishing the character at all so I canât blame you.
Suffice it to say, when good triumphs over evil in Middle-earth, itâs generally because evil has some sort of inherent personality flaw that is counteracted by some sort of innate goodness of our hero. Itâs not a commentary on straight up power.
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Heâs arguably more powerful than your average Maiar, given that he inherited many of Morgothâs creations (most of which he directly invested his power within) and due to the creation of the One Ring which letâs him âcheatâ and preserve his own power, thereby using it without reservation.
As Iâm sure you know well, Tolkien treats âmagicâ as a finite resource - one you use it, itâs gone. As such, rarely do you see grandiose displays, even if theyâre technically possible. Sauron essentially âfrozeâ his power level with the One Ring, so he can use that power without fear of diminishment.
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Perhaps they didnât teach conservation of energy back back in Tolkienâs time.
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I am just wondering if this was a very bad Siri translation or if Iâve been away from DBZ that longâŠ
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Iâm a huge DB fan but itâs weird that anyone thinks Goku could defeat Superman Prime. Guy is ridiculously overpowered.
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Its a reference to a youtube animation of the freeza saga made by oneyng. Was pretty popular back in the day due to how batguano insane it was.