what a revolutionary idea
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Started talking about it in Legion, along with AOE festering strike. Same with Frostwyrmās Fury for Frost in WoD.
The idea has been around for nearly 10 years at this point.
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And they shouldnt design around people that cant help but move even though its unnecessary. Minimal movement has been a basic rule of tanking and dps since forever. Its not like this rule is subject to just the top 5%.
If you want your dps to do more damage / dps you stop moving so much. This isnt a hard thing to accomplish.
Maybe if people like you would speak up to your group and ask to minimize movement instead of calling everyone idiots then you wouldnt be complaining as much.
There goes Kelliste missing the point again. The point is that its extra punishing to players bellow the upper ranges of player skill and often for reasons outside their control. It just feels bad and WoW is a game to be enjoyed so if mechanics feel bad they should be looked at and improved or removed.
You are literally making an elitist argument and appealing to how the top 1-5% donāt have as much issue with the mechanic. You even mentioned a +21 so youāre also appealing to the top 0.01%. You realize you are advocating for the game to be built for those players with your line of thinking?
I tend to push M+ rating very early in the season before laying off because I donāt like infinitely scaling content. This allows me to play with a lot of top 1-10% players as they do their early season keys.
The reason I say this is because It lets me know that I am competitive with very high end DKs in overall player skill if not quite as good. D&D cleave made me have to work much harder to perform than other specs because even with high skill tanks they would move slightly more than was optimal making the are inside my D&D that I had while maintaining melee range much smaller and leading to needing to step out of it to avoid mechanics or break melee range.
Tanks (particularly lower skill or new tanks) are huge Divas because they can leave a key and be in a new one in no time. Trying to correct them often just kills your key. I know youāve stated you donāt do keys so Iāll chock that up to not understanding the social dynamics of the game mode in recent years.
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And there does Nevermore making stuff up. I know the point they are trying to make. They shouldnt design the game for the top % of players because blah blah blah.
Really? Not moving / minimal moving is the upper ranges of player skill? Seriously?
Its not outside of your control. Where a mechanic happens is outside of your control but running 30 yards away is entirely within the group / your control. Quit with this āwoe is me people suck at the game so everything should changeā nonsense.
Good, people need to get better and communicate instead of dictating Blizzard change the game because people should just be able to run around like a chicken with its head cut off.
How about we normalize better gameplay than people being crap and not caring about other people? How about that?
Bro, you actually trying to argue player skill? Thatās some real pebble talking to the boulder energy.
Itās also super disingenuous as you regularly complain about people asking about your level of experience and skill rather than just addressing your points. (Even when they are doing so specifically to try and gauge where youāre coming from with and opinion.)
If a tank has a skill issue and pulls away from your D&D what control did you have in that process? You ask them to move less like youāve said? Iām sure they can just instantly improve their skill level.
Says Iām making stuff up. Proceeds to say things that miss the point entirely. Stay small.
Be the change you want to see.
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Yes.
Placing your DnD better or telling the tank to not move so much. You know that thing called communication that WoW players rather not do but rather call other people names.
Yes
Literally yes. You are acting like not moving is some form of sorcery that comes with 100ās-1000ās of hours of gametime. Its move just far enough to be out of danger.
You are.
I didnt miss the point. How absolutely disingenuous can you be exactly? Ok, so if things are an issue because other peoples skill cant be improved within a reasonable time why have more than 1 ability that you just spam that does aoe? Since you have no control over what people do then the game should be boringly easy no issues if someone else messes up? Ridiculous outlook.
I know not to move 100 yards when a mechanic pops up that takes 2 steps to get out of. They even made it easier to do with having clear boundaries to abilities unlike how we had to kind of guess where the boundary was.
You missed the point again. Iām bored of trying to talk to you with charitability only to have strawman arguments thrown back at me.
You should really try M+ so you can get some context for what you are trying to talk about instead of looking so ignorant.
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Then how about you make it clear what your crappy point is.
No strawman arguments being made actually.
Shut it.
Iāve been doing that and you seam to be actively avoiding the point so no thanks Iām good on wasting my time. Not even fun to argue with you anymore.
Stay mad and wrong then. Not my problem. GG good luck.
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No you havent. If the point isnt the game should be easier because people are bad and cant move the minimal amount then you are not making the point clear.
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That would be very cool tbh
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This macro saved my marriage. Thank you, good friend
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All good points except back in the day they had to actively manage threat, which most donāt know how to do now b/c itās baked into damage. Iāve pulled threat on my rogue (with trix upādonāt ask pally tank never used conc) and priest well over 2k when the tank was near 3k. Iām also saying that from saving many, many tanks on this spriest.
Honestly the position gripe comes from watching them kill themselves more than anything, I didnāt start doing pve on my dk till pre patch dropped. Having a blast but the mechanics of DND are for a game thatās long gone.
Flip to the other end of the spectrum, the good tanks or the ones who are better than bad. Unless you take a blood dk itās always a complete mind job trying to figure out where the music stops and they stop gathering so you can plop down DND. Or the group just runs through to the boss, low level keys from about week 1-4 on depending on skill/gear in the group.
Itās a holdup for speeds/higher end groups as well.
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Maybe its just my perspective but Iāve never seen old threat as a hard mechanic. Also by the time threat became relatively obsolete active mitigation started getting added to the game and even though it was super easy in its inception Iād say it was about as hard as threat while the game and classes themselves had gotten harder like I said above.
DF has had some agro issues. (Personally I think some threat ratios for specific classes are bugged. Like Wind Walker.) Blizzard seams to want tanks to have to worry about it a little but not as a constant mechanic. Iāve found that agro in DF has a huge level of strategic skill expression.
As an example I will preposition to move into the next pack as Iām grouping and once mobs are low Iāll use or call for CC/slows so DPS can finish it off while Iām pulling the next and by the time they are popping CDs on the next pack it will be mostly grouped and Iāll have had at least 3 globals to establish agro and keep my dps safe.
So to accommodate threat in its current form I personally consider CDs, CCs, positioning, mobility, gauging the groups DPS to time moving on and Comp. (Because some dps pull agro much easier so youāll need to compensate for that.)
Its not a big issue but the small things are what separate the people who are good at tanking and the people who are good at a spec that tanks.
Please excuse my tank-tism long post. Lol.
Oh man. So you missed out on when it was at its worst! Back during pillar scaling missing even one global of D&D cleave was hyper punishing. Its not even half as bad now.
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Please DK Dev, please give us an aura DND.
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Yeah sadly I saw no reason to handicap the group by playing my dk. Unless they were a tank I literally did not invite one warrior or dk to my groups on rogue/spriest this expac b/c actually worthless after a point. Canāt deal with affixes, mediocre damage, no wipe stops.
Interesting post on threat, I really miss the old dps talents that would drop it by 5ā10% and buff damage on an ability.
PS when I talk about bad tanks Iām not talking about you, and thereās a real reason for it. I used to Z-barb in D3 for the best players in NA. That game is a bit different, you as a tank grouped and used your defensives to keep your group alive. I also KSMād BDK in legion so knowing how important grouping is when youāre going against a timer with a percentage progression bar. Nearly every tank I had in LFG this expac had no concept of either and itās sad. What Iām getting at is, no one thinks about the role anymore. The full depth of it, which is what makes them worse than in days past. You get it, but that doesnāt mean everyone or even a slight majority do.
My other favorite is joining a healer key with a heal intensive affix then watching the healer flame the group which consists of Mage/Rogue/Warlock/BDK for not helping them heal the affix. Just silly.
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Youāre rightā¦ But have you ever thought that maybe the tank needed to move the mobs for some reason? Maybe a frontal cone, or a ground AoE that you didnāt see, or maybe he was tightening up the pack?
Tanks need to move the mobs from time to time. And yeah, it sucks when they have to move them out of your AoEās. It sucks when it happens to me too. But some times it canāt be helped. Blaming the tank isnāt always the answer.
And with comments like this, I feel like there might be more to the run and more to the tank than youāre letting on. You saw him move out of your AoE, then you came here to complain. I feel like youāre probably not the most observant person in the world, and probably tunnel vision on your own dps to care about whatās happening to the other people in your team.
I donāt disagree that DnD needs to at the very least be āstuckā to the player and follow them as they move. Since at least for Frost and Unholy, youāre going to be putting it down on top of yourself 90% of the time anyway. Blood is a different story, but they have a bit more control over when, how and where they get to place theirs. (Along with the resets they get)
So I agree with the premise of the thread. I just disagree with how youāre going about it. Blaming the tank and only the tank.
I for sure never took it that way no worries.
I would still say that tanks are overall better now and appeal back to the idea that the good ones are just rarely in the group finder for most people to play with.
For example I have done hundreds of keys across DF and In most of those my group was all people from my guild that I know are good (and often invited me as soon as I logged on.)
Of the keys where I put my self in group finder less than 30% were probably to look for more than 2 people, and I would bet Iāve done less than 50 keys this expansion with no one who isnāt a āregularā. All of this to say I think most good tanks are like me and just arenāt accessible to the general population.
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None of your āoutā scenarioās apply. Nothing major was happening in any case the tank just didnāt like where they were standing. Sometimes they chase the mobs that randomly jump to someone and jump back, which is super stupid but only explanation for what I saw twice the other night.
As for my priest and rogue which I mained this expac most certainly they stood in things. That was part of a previous conversation, which again I complained that I had to save them on my priest.
Right but only the tank is controlling the tanks character and they werenāt running from a ground effect or a frontal or anything.
What would be your rationale for having it be an aura? Also do you think itās a holdup in speed runs? I mentioned that in the OP and several times in the thread as well.