Dear Devs: "Recommended" item level needs to be accurate

Community General Discussion
1

Ok, it’s day 3, the forums are aflame and I think reasonable folks can agree that, to a point, it’s ok if we get our teeth kicked in a bit if we go looking for a challenge in delves.

That all said, if there is one variable in this mess of our relationship with this new content type that should really try its best to be real with us, it’s the one indicator we are given as to whether we “belong” on this or that tier.

The item level recommendation needs to have vigilant attention paid to the message it sends.

If I see a recommended item level, it should be honest. It should tell me and other players of average skill “you are well above, so go ahead and run this over for a lark,” or it should tell me “you’re close to this number, expect to be challenged, this is a push.”

It should tell me these things accurately regardless of my class. It should absolutely send a message with any class/role specific tuning in mind. If that tuning changes, the number needs to change to reflect that tuning.

And honestly, err on the side of brutality. Tell me I’m not quite up to a tier 5 if that’s the case, but don’t tell me “you got this at this item level” if that’s likely to be a lie. You have the telemetry, err broadly on the side of “talk to me like I’m potentially bad at the game.” Going the other way is how you get the wrong expectations.

This “recommendation” is the delve’s only way we have to know our relationship with like… the mode and game itself. If I go into something I’m 20 levels above, and I get steamrolled, when that was not the case before, the game should not be essentially telling me I’m suddenly that bad when I am not.

It’s not entirely a self image thing, but it’s definitely a trust thing.

Whenever you nip or tuck anything, if you have the means and the tools to do so, please update the recommended item level accordingly. This is so important for a variable difficulty on a mode that tries to entertain soloists and groups.

I will otherwise not tell you what scaling or tuning needs to happen. Whatever you do, please don’t mess with the accuracy of the “you need to be this tall to ride” sort of message.

Thank you.

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well stated friend, … its nice to see a very strait forward and well stated forum post :slight_smile:

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Penicillin works for that.

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Based on Sloot’s X post and the WowHead article damage is scaling by spec:
DPS = x1 scaling
Healer = x1.5 scaling
Tank = x2 scaling

You’re spot on that the recommended item level is not accurate for this kind of scaling by spec.

I have no idea why Blizzard thought this was a) acceptable design and b) okay to implement without transparency but they’re caught now.

I have no idea what they’ll do in response but I am skeptical it will be beneficial in nature.

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I’m so lost on what youre asking

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So you’re upset that a recommendation isn’t an absolute requirement?
Or that the content isn’t a breeze the second you hit that item level recommendation?

Also it seems you’re saying the item levels should be raised?
I actually think the item level recommendations are too conservative and can come down like 5-8 ilvls per bracket.

Which is exactly why the suggested item level is just that, a suggestion.

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Let’s be honest. The real reason some people are mad is because other people are getting loot that they are unable to acquire.

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I think the issue is that there’s a sizeable disparity on how specs will handle them based on the tools available to that spec.

I can clear tier 8s at ~560 as an Unholy DK, which is ~40 ilvls below the recommended. My Brann is also only level 17, so its not like he’s been levelled up to an absurd degree.

But when I get to playing some Shadow Priest, I don’t think the story will be the same at all.

Given the difference in spec balance currently, I don’t think people should focus on the recommendation. Instead I’d say just push until you hit a wall, then work over it. Rinse and repeat.

I don’t see how they can ever get a recommended ilvl right for solo content without it being spec specific or things being more balanced between specs.

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I think people expect a challenge when they meet the bare minimum. But right now the scaling is quite off to the point that the recommended minimum is wildly inaccurate and doesn’t anywhere near reflect the actual difficulty of the challenge while solo for most classes and specs.

Like if the game tells me I should be 600+ before I try the Delve, I’m not exactly going to expect to encounter unavoidable damage that would smoke me even if I had 700 ilvl. We’re talking about damage so high that even end-of-expansion gear is unlikely to help you survive.

Right now because of the backwards scaling (with mobs somehow losing health and damage with more players), the recommendation is only remotely accurate when you group up even though Delves were marketed and presumably designed to be solo content first and foremost.

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10

I get that things are fluctuating and in hotfix purgatory right now, but yeah, on the other side of this should be an informed decision between “ok, let’s push” and “I’d like to turn my brain off and earn some easy Brann XP,” which is how I’ve been playing and enjoying delves with my alts farming tier 4’s. It has not felt consistent and I hope their goal is to address that. I shouldn’t need gems and enchants, for example, to reach that state if I’m burying the recommended ilvl below me quite intentionally.

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You’re asking for a level of precision that’s impossible to achieve. There are so many variables to consider that there’s no way a recommendation can state explicitly that a player will have a easy, difficult, or merely OK time with content.

Just jump into and try your best. That’s the easiest way to figure out what you can and can’t do.

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This. It’s impossible to put an exact number to the skill variable per player, on top of some classes and specs being better than others for solo content.

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I know I wasn’t clear about it, but in my head I thought that the dynamic “recommended ilvl number” should indeed reflect the class looking at it… but that brings us to a threshold that I don’t think WoW is willing to cross:

Acknowledging soloability disparity in an official sense.

We are literally one step away from an Overwatch-reminiscent “class difficulty” value. It was jarring in original Overwatch, and it’d explode heads in WoW. I don’t think the devs are willing to concede “this class solos better” officially.

So yes, you two are probably right.

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Would be too much work trying to figure out what ilvl every class and spec needs to be, especially since ilvl alone doesn’t tell the whole picture either.

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Recommended does not mean “This will bring success always”.

Some classes have a better time soloing, news at 11.

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I’ve always thought we accept this too easily, but obviously it’s true. I don’t think we should be expected to just sit on that and let it lie, but it is what it is I guess.

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*people in groups

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in full agreement.

as an example, delves 8 suggests 600 ilevel.

I think I did my first one at 590 (guardian druid). no current enchantments. It was a struggle but doable.

now at 598 with enchantments, my guardian druid can easily no-death an 8.

zekvir tier ? requires a completed Delve 8 and also suggests a 600 ilevel. I find it impossible to complete. I just can’t do enough damage to kill the agg/add and I end up getting webbed, feared, deleted. I have managed to get 4 adds down one time, but I just simply run out of cooldowns and my interrupts just don’t align with the timing of mechanics.

but this encounter says to have 600 ilevel. 2 more levels of gear will not be enough, I think, to magically get over the hump.