Would be nice to have Deadly Poison doing real damage numbers instead of numbers from 3 expansions back.
An Iconic poison for a spec called “Deadly master of poisons” is the most useless talent that you can’t even miss, because its first in the talent tree.
DP damage compared to other dots with 590 ilvl:
DP - 59 384 over 12 sec.
Rupture - 455 411 over 12 sec.
Internal bleeding - 99 500 over 6 sec.
Garrote - 373 944 over 18 sec.
Crimson Tempest - 587 710 over 12 sec.
Deadly Poison damage is laughably bad and should be buffed.
Right now its even worse than auto attack which is bad design.
7 Likes
Why should the damage be particularly high when poisons themselves are essentially also just autoattacks? Besides, it gets a lot more value from its interactions with other talents and abilities like Lethal Dose, Caustic Spatter, and Kingsbane.
2 Likes
Pretty much, if anything making it too good would cause balance issues, cause like Vinto said, its basically another form of autoattack, which can be very easily applied by just attacking the target, and not hard to apply to others with Fan of Knives.
1 Like
DP is not a finisher that is used after building up combo points. You cant proc DP. You cant build CP and unleash a finisher that will for sure use DP. The interaction of DP with specific passives and finishers make it rather valuable for added damage. And if you look at details after every fight, Deadly Poison will be about mid pack, while the three main DOTs (Both Garrotte, Rupture and Crimson Tempest) round out the top five in damage. DP is working well on Sin Rogues at the moment.
1 Like
Exactly. Deadly Poison is a buff to your auto attacks and component of other abilities. Its not meant to be powerful on it’s own and buffing it, a passive damage source, would require rebalancing damage elsewhere in ways that would either make no change or make us feel worst.
Rogues fought for a long time to move the lion’s share of our damage off auto attacks and on to active abilities. This would be a step back.
A much better question to ask is: “What purpose does Instant Poison serve in the Assassination kit?”
It does less damage, doesn’t have a greater chance to apply, and doesn’t allow you to use any of your key abilities as the spec. You get Deadly Poison so quickly as a Rogue that Instant Poison can’t be meaningfully said to even serve as a bridging ability. And even if you have Dragon-Tempered Blades allowing you to apply to of each kind of poison (Lethal and non-Lethal) why would you ever use Instant? For PvP you should be using Wound and for PvE you should have Amplifying.
Instant should either be removed (effectively over written by Deadly) or changed in some way to provide a different effect that makes it a choice worth taking in certain instances / playstyles.
2 Likes
I do miss when auto attack and poisons where the bulk of the damage seem to fit the class fantasy of assassin to me. Now most of our damage is from envenom and bleed dots melee and poison is way down
Instant only remains because Amplifying isn’t mandatory to reach Dragon-Tempered Blades.
1 Like
Sure but who is getting Dragon-Tempering and not taking Amp? Even if you’re PvPing you don’t want Instant.
Deadly Poison is not meant to compete with finisher damage. It has two big uses: to keep enemy players from entering stealth safely, and to augment your other abilities (Envenom, Kingsbane)
It shouldn’t be competing with DOTs that cost energy or combo points.
It also shouldn’t be complete garbage
2 Likes
There are a lot of problems with Rogue right now but Deadly Poison not competing with Rupture ain’t one
It doesn’t have to compete, but it should be definitely stronger than our auto attack
3 Likes
We have several talents that buff poison damage, poison application. It’s kind of silly if the base damage of poison is so bad that those talents are useless.
Having variety in how you build your character through the talent tree and what routes you want to take to focus where your damage comes from should be the design goal of this whole talent system. But poison base damage is so bad those talents aren’t even worth considering except simply to route to talents below them when there is no other choice. It’s disappointing from a design perspective.
3 Likes
would you like to go back to the days where weapon poisons accounts for over 50% of overall damage?
I don’t know how true that is, but Deadly is one part of our entire toolkit. It’s easy to apply in AOE situations with FoK, it helps keep enemy players from stealthing in PvP, and it magnifies the damage of Kingsbane (if you use it). If you don’t like it that’s fine, but it’s far from bad or useless.
Also, keep in mind… it’s free! It’s up and ticking in every fight you’ll ever get into. That’s why it isn’t dealing Garrote or Rupture damage, because those have costs.
What talents are you talking about? Because I only know of a few talents that specifically increase the damage of our poisons and they all do so in conjunction with increasing other sources of damage. Almost as if the poison damage increase is a nice side benefit but no the main point. The other poison talents tend to be about the application of said poisons themselves.
Deadly Poison is a passive proc effect.
It’d be interesting to compare it to other passive proc effects for other classes.