it doesn’t make sense. even as a loyalist with insider information it still doesn’t make sense.
The only way it makes sense is if N’Zoth is against the Jailer and Sylvanas is his agent not the jailers.
But that would make N’Zoth a good guy, or at the very least the lesser of two evils.
I think that was the point. N’zoth was basically the lesser of two evils. He even says that only he can protect us from what is to come (i.e. Zovaal). That is the thing about the void. They see multiple truths so to us it would seem that they lie and only lie. Sometimes however they tell the truth but we ignore them. N’zoth was basically the boy who cried wolf.
But as I mentioned earlier. My guess is Blizzard had plans for Zul to be in on the Azshara / Sylvanas conspiracy but for whatever reason they decided to drop it and move Zuls role to Ashvane. Ashvane was the original final boss for Siege of Boralus before they changed it to Viq’Goth and the Zul Azshara plotline Baal linked went nowhere in the end. We later see Ashvane in league with Azshara and we know Sylvanas and Ashvane had a talk after the horde breaks the latter out of prison.
However they most likely couldn’t change elements of this plot line that were made early into development. Most likely because they already had recorded voice lines and what not. This does make me think it was a last minute decision.
There’s a lot things that get dropped in development. One of the things that had me speculating that Calia was going to be Scarlet Crusade was a dropped Crusade plot in BfA where Morgoth (Morgath?) got kidnapped by the Crusade and we had to rescue him and that’s why when Lilian and Velonara meet Calia at the end of BFA to accept her into the Forsaken. I secretly suspect that Morgoth is actually Renthar Hawkspear, who dissapeared at the end of Cata but he vowed to create an organization to hunt the undead… so Death Hunter Morgoth is actually just using Velonara to get close to the Forsaken, he has a personal vendetta against Nathanos, I was kind of lowkey hoping he would be involved in Nathanos’s demise.
Lillian, Velonara being there with Calia as she accepts the mantle of Forsaken leadership… The whole “I’ve been screwed over by the Crusade” gang is here, I hope they revisit this and those pamphlets were not just throwaway lore junk.
Maybe Zul was supposed to be the horde’s “in” as a reason to be more invested in Nazjatar, maybe? I remember finding it a bit odd how each faction had their own old god content, but G’huun sounded forgettable and pointless whereas Azshara’s been a big-name villain whose presence you’ve felt ever since vanilla.
I’ve commented before about how BFA almost seems more cohesive if you retcon the horde’s existence out of all of it. Going Kul’tiras → Nazjatar → N’zoth as you stockpile azerite for Azeroth’s safety sounds more consistent overall than the inverse, because the horde path would have no logic going from Zuldazar → G’huun → N’zoth, along with your split priorities of taking azerite for yourself while allegedly stockpiling it for the horde war machine.
It does and this is aided by how Azshara not only had Lord Stormsong in her pocket but also Ashvane. So 2/3 zones in Kul Tiras were building up to Nazjatar even if Tiragarde sound didn’t look like it was for the most part. Drustvar is the only one that isn’t which is why it stands out. Drustvar is also the only zone in Kul Tiras where all chapters of the main storyline are about the main villains (The Drust and the Coven). While the other zones had “main chapters” that were basically side chains that loosely tie to the greater narrative. One of those “not as important chains” got completely rewritten just to have more AvH stuff and it clearly shows.
This also made it feel disjointed for Alliance. Like the only reason why Alliance get “invested” in Uldir because, “oh boy, another hidden titan complex, better go exploring with Brann to only find out that an Old God is about to break free. Haven’t seen that before”. But at least with Ulduar, the Explorers league stuff in Howling Fjord, Grizzly Hills and Stormpeaks were building up to raid and its two dungeons. Meanwhile raids like Crucible of Storms and Eternal Palace feel out of place for Horde. Which is honestly weird that the horde gets the canonical clear of CoS even though CoS is the follow up of Shrine of the Storm. The way it is framed is that the horde go in and they find empty Xal’atath. They just happen to do it before the Alliance because of reasons. You would think that the Alliance would be all over CoS given the events of Stormsong Valley and Shrine of the Storm. This also calls into question which faction gets the canonical clear of Eternal Palace. CoS was N’zoth testing us to see if we are worthy of Azsharas trials. So if the horde gets the canonical clear of CoS, logically they would also get the canonical clear of EP. Which honestly feels horrible that the horde just hijacks an Alliance focused story. Given that Uldir was basically horde only from a narrative point of view.
Actually History is a lousy teacher because her lessons are so darned repetitive.
To be serious though History is doomed to repeat because the reasons for people doing what they do, never go away… they simply keep repeating themselves.
Shouldn’t Eternal Palace be both factions? Its not not even a neutral faction drawing from both sides, but both faction militaries actively working together, with Lor’themar and Jaina in the final cutscene side by side.
Given the context and purpose of Crucible of Storms, one can infer that only the horde clear Eternal Palace as they are the ones that canonically do Crucible of Storms. Since that is where they get the empty Xal’atath dagger from. Since N’zoth keeps it after setting the actual Xal’atath free.
But the main objective of CoS is to recover the artifacts that Xal’atath (the person) told us to get. To which two of them become gear drops from Uu’nat. The Trident and the Void Stone. No idea what happened to the Tempest Caller crown though. Blizzard should’ve made that an Azerite head piece (have 4 version of it like they did with the crown from Opulence). So the horde going in before the alliance is just pure coincidence. If the Horde (or at the very least Sylvanas loyalists) had an extra quest to go in and grab Xal’atath (the dagger) so Sylvanas can use it to make a bargain with Azshara then it would be fine.
No I think order of events is:
One problem though. N’zoth keeps the dagger. Even on the horde version of that quest chain. So how did the horde get the dagger from N’zoth if the Alliance clears the raid first?
The horde finding the dagger and bringing it to Nathanos is just a coincidence. You go into CoS to recover the artifacts we unintentionally brought to N’zoth via Xal’atath (the entity). I just think Sylvanas loyalists should’ve had a quest where they get ordered to recover the dagger in secret. After they tell Talanji about what happened, they go and report it to Nathanos in secret and he orders them to recover the dagger because Sylvanas needs it. Not something the horde finds after killing Uu’nat and go “we should take this to Nathanos for reasons”. It just feels forced to try and connect the N’zoth plot and the Sylvanas plot this way without having any actual set up. Then you have the whole, “CoS was actually N’zoth just testing us to see if we are worthy of doing Azsharas tests that will end with N’zoth being freed” plot thread.
Because the questchain is the Horde player character (presumably a Canon Horde Forsaken Shadow Priest) finding Xalatath among the Naga, restoring her, and bringing the dagger to Nathanos from Nzoth.
After we do that the Alliance raids the Crucible and finds the echo of the dagger
The Alliance PC never canonically held xalatath
Again, N’zoth KEEPS the dagger and the horde players come back LATER to pick it up. Nothing suggests that it was a horde PC that only did the chain and the horde PC never gave the dagger to Nathanos directly after getting the gift of N’zoth. What i’m saying isn’t speculation. It is what actually happens in the game.
That’s a big assumption to make there when Xal’atath has a long history of “conveniently” being where it needs to be, long predating the events of BfA. Just so happening to turn up in just the right place at just the right time around just the right people is kinda Xal’atath’s “thing.”
More likely the blade itself arranged for us to find it there so we could bring it to the Shrine of the Storms and allow its deal with N’zoth to be made. The whole situation frankly reeked of “that creepy blade is mysteriously appearing right where it needs to for its own purposes again…”
Azshara’s plan to betray N’zoth and kill him with Xal’atath was never said to actually require that the blade’s own sentience first be removed. The act of breaching N’zoth’s carapace seemed to have either destroyed the blade or hurled it out of reach, so the entity within Xal’atath may well have orchestrated its own survival by delivering itself into our hands when it did to avoid being destroyed through said use or subsequently stranded in the collapsing vision of Ny’alotha.
the writers confirmed canonically the Horde PC finds the dagger and brings it back.
the Alliance version of Crucible you are a bit too late and miss the blade.
Horde Shadow priest canoncially lets her out because there was special dialogue for priests who had previously owned Xal’atath.
Exactly the dagger left there after Nzoth empowers the Horde player character.
The Forsaken shadow priest hypothesis makes the most sense since the artifact questline involves Natalie Seline and it was a shadow priest artifact and Valens prophecy mentioned Forsaken rejoicing
Also can y’all report that sanlasyan post as inappropriate, that’s the third time that person stalks me on an alt lol
I reported.
People are so weird. I wish Blizzard forced a Forum system so people can’t evade blocks via alts and we’d know who’s who
since Yventhalim is ignoring me, how plausible do you think Sylvanas’s powers actually came from Xal’atath and not the jailer, since Sylvanas powers look similar to Nathalie’s powers on her hearthstone card?
Her chains obviously came from the jailer and the power she used to defeat Bolvar. but the magic she used in the reckoning cinematic seemed different.
They made a point at Blizzcon to tease us with an image of Sylvanas holding Xal’atath.
I think Sylvanas could reasonably be using both Void and Death in combination, given the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow was originally a Forsaken order.
Cuz she’s always had shadow powers, what with how her arrows have always been depicted
But the spooky kamehameha was death
The incoherence lies in Jaina claiming she’s never seen it before (Arthas?) and then Thrall says it’s similar to Shadowmoon magic (but that was Shadow + Fel in MU unless he means AU)