Daily reminder that feral utility is strictly worse than balance

[Manbearkitty-sargeras]

Title says it all.
The only reason a feral might be brought to a key instead of a boomie (besides dmg ofc) is that if spriest, locks and mages are op and in every group and you cant afford to use solar beam because of its long cd.

[Oxyotll-stormreaver]

Even if those are too OP, I still see Rogues taking the spot over Feral cause that Utility is still amazing to have in M+

[Hruuken-bleeding-hollow (Hruuken)]

Nobody needs a daily reminder that Feral has less utility than Balance.

[Fangsong-proudmoore]

I would like it if all druids had a version of Mark of the Wild (maybe a versatility buff) as well as stampeding roar and innervate. I think the only thing feral brings that balance doesn’t is a more dependable single target spell interrupt.

[Graý-onyxia]

Part of your unique utility was Stampeding Roar, which is now baseline to all Druids.

Rather than adding new spells or new utility that might make the spec “mandatory”, wouldn’t it be better to just equal out the utility a Druid brings?

For example, any Druid of any spec can be expected to bring: Innervate, Brez, Stampeding Roar. I’m not sure why Innervate wasn’t made baseline along with Roar.

[Sallinia-emerald-dream]

What was the crit buff that feral used to being? Leader of the pack right?

Like even something like that would be pretty cool.

@Graý-onyxia

Rather than adding new spells or new utility that might make the spec “mandatory”, wouldn’t it be better to just equal out the utility a Druid brings?

The problem there is that if all druids bring the exact same thing, then why not have your healer be a druid or bring balance as melee is crowded and Feral isn’t “better” than X melee.

Like if you’re hardcore on bringing a melee, Rogue offers far more utility, ret has tons of support now, monks have ring of peace, Enh brings windfury goodness, warriors have shouts and new utility in SL, DK brings another Brez etc. If you really want a druid, then feral is sort of stuck as the last choice for a group comp.

But if they brought a little extra spice then there’d be a more compelling reason to bring them as melee instead of one of the others. If feral brought a crit buff, or something that other druids don’t, then you could consider it more. Then it’s “Feral brings crit but balance would be range”. A more compelling decision imo.

[Graý-onyxia]

@Sallinia-emerald-dream

The problem there is that if all druids bring the exact same thing, then why not have your healer be a druid or bring balance as melee is crowded and Feral isn’t “better” than X melee.

That problem isn’t unique to Druids per se. Monks bring the 5% extra physical damage taken but you usually bring a Brewmaster or Mistweaver to apply it instead of a Windwalker. You’ll bring the Druid because you need melee DPS.

@Sallinia-emerald-dream

Like if you’re hardcore on bringing a melee, Rogue offers far more utility, ret has tons of support now, monks have ring of peace, Enh brings windfury goodness, warriors have shouts and new utility in SL, DK brings another Brez etc. If you really want a druid, then feral is sort of stuck as the last choice for a group comp.

I think a better idea would be to tone down outliers like Rogue. If I don’t have a brez in the group, and I really want one but need a melee dps, then Feral or DK would be a good choice. What sort of utility are you looking for Feral to bring? What utility is being under utilized (for example, Soothe/Hibernate)?

@Sallinia-emerald-dream

Then it’s “Feral brings crit but balance would be range”. A more compelling decision imo.

Melee have the advantage when it comes to interrupts. When it comes to Feral vs Balance, Moonkin can only interrupt once every min. Maybe we need more melee-friendly fights?

[Sallinia-emerald-dream]

@Graý-onyxia

That problem isn’t unique to Druids per se. Monks bring the 5% extra physical damage taken but you usually bring a Brewmaster or Mistweaver to apply it instead of a Windwalker. You’ll bring the Druid because you need melee DPS.

100% agree. It’s just that with druids in particular it’s been a much bigger piece. I haven’t seen a single group ever stating they want Feral melee dps. If you have a melee in the group already, there’s no extra benefit to bringing feral. If you don’t have a melee, there are still better options.

@Graý-onyxia

I think a better idea would be to tone down outliers like Rogue. If I don’t have a brez in the group, and I really want one but need a melee dps, then Feral or DK would be a good choice. What sort of utility are you looking for Feral to bring? What utility is being under utilized (for example, Soothe/Hibernate)?

Rogues probably do need a tone down. But if you want Brez melee then DK ends up being the better overall choice (especially in SL as they’re getting like… ALL the toys). I don’t think it’s as much that feral is lacking in any specific utility, i think that it needs to bring… i donno just SOMETHING more.

@Graý-onyxia

Melee have the advantage when it comes to interrupts. When it comes to Feral vs Balance, Moonkin can only interrupt once every min. Maybe we need more melee-friendly fights?

I think we’ve got a good mix already honestly. Part of the benefit of melee is able to DPS on the go. Well, balance can also do that pretty well. And balance doesn’t need a nerf to that, it’s just that feral doesn’t shine more than balance.

Maybe if feral applying bleeds could proc or just brought a natural haste buff (or any kind of buff). Or if they had a roar buff that gave a group benefit.

[Graý-onyxia]

@Sallinia-emerald-dream

100% agree. It’s just that with druids in particular it’s been a much bigger piece. I haven’t seen a single group ever stating they want Feral melee dps. If you have a melee in the group already, there’s no extra benefit to bringing feral. If you don’t have a melee, there are still better options.

I want to make it clear that I am not against dispelling the stigma of Feral and for Feral to receive any buffs that may be warranted. I love Feral and you guys have my support <3

But when it comes to ‘unique buffs’ and utility, I feel the situation is more of an intricate ecosystem that requires precision rather than a situation of “my spec can’t do this” so I “want this” and “this”.

I agree that I rarely see groups seeking out a Feral Druid specifically the way they seek a Rogue for Shroud or a Moonkin for Treants. You also have to consider that because Restoration is such a strong spec and spots are limited in a raid/group settings, there is rarely room for another Druid.

I wholeheartedly agree that as it stands right now, if I want Druid utility in Shadowlands, I don’t want a Feral. Resto/Balance brings anything Feral offers and more.

@Sallinia-emerald-dream

Maybe if feral applying bleeds could proc or just brought a natural haste buff (or any kind of buff). Or if they had a roar buff that gave a group benefit.

The issue is making “Feral” feel mandatory to a raid. Maybe a better solution is to spread the raid buffs that are already present to other specs. For example, what if Feral also brought the 5% increased physical damage taken?

[Sallinia-emerald-dream]

@Graý-onyxia

The issue is making “Feral” feel mandatory to a raid. Maybe a better solution is to spread the raid buffs that are already present to other specs. For example, what if Feral also brought the 5% increased physical damage taken?

That could work. Or actually, let them bring the one that Demon hunters bring for no other reason than that’s another power that DH doesn’t necessarily need to be viable lol.

Like feral bringing magic buff wouldn’t make sense, but could enable some fun comps (feral druid mage lock etc). Wait oh god the pvp power lol

Though it might honestly need to have like… a BIG thing initially just to help dispell that stigma. Give them a big buff for launch till .1, then retune the group buff. Maybe people would group with more ferals in that time, see that they’re great, and ease up on not taking them in future. Make them “mandatory” for a little bit lol