This is my headcanon: after the Orcs rejected when the Draenei told them their ancestor worship was fake, the Draenei didn’t tell them about the Legion because they thought the Orcs wouldn’t believe them.
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I think if it got to the point where we were building cities and ducking calling ourselves by the name of the new planet we’d have the good sense to warn the locals about whatever it is we were running from.
I’m confused.
How would that be worse than just outright not warning them? How the hell are the Orcs going to contact the Burning Legion to ask for their side of the story anyway?
Call me crazy, but if one side are essentially human beings, and the other are big ole fat idiots who need a literal second head to achieve a thought more complex than “Kill” or “Eat”, I’m probably siding with the human like ones.
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A better story for the Horde is the Alliance started the war.
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The same way their shamans were able directly communicate with the burning legion.
Garrosh warned the Orcs about the burning legion and how in another timeline they got enslaved by demonblood. What do the orcs do in WoD? Join the legion anyway.
The Draenei lived there because they got stuck there. But they were completely removed from the original inhabitants of Dreanor. They did not interfer with the orcs or ogres and their way of life. The Draenei didn’t conquer and colonize the planet like you imply.
And again what would warning them accomplish than flirt with disaster?
So you would land on a planet as a refugee, find whichever race better resembles you and then enable that race to dominate the other alien race? Thats messed up. You are complaining Draenei were probably racist by saying they did not exhibit racist views and practices by not helping the orcs oppress the ogres.
Excuse me if I do not have tremendous empathy for the fictional species that eats people alive and are as dumb as the rocks they will pelt at you for existing near them.
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Watch the warlords cinematic.
The orcs were just as brutal with the ogres when they got a chance. This is one of those things you don’t interfere with. And again if the Draenei started slingling their magic around to help the Orcs and their war the Legion would have found them anyway.
What you ask for is an impossibility considering the lore.
Unless of course you are saying the Draenei should have landed on Dreanor, conscript the orcs into a war they had nothing to do with by promising assistance in purging the ogres. Then both races can enjoy getting meatgrinded by an endless horde of demons. And when it gets hopeless a few draenei could make another liferaft like Exodar and blast off into space to escape while the remaining draenei and orcs make their last stand.
Would that have been a better alternative?
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It’s just getting kind of boring, the only answer how to make the alliance interesting for the horde players is always “make the alliance racist”…and everything the horde did is some kind of self inflicted punishment because the alliance are evil racist…
it’s always the same argument: race X didn’t do Y because racist and oppressed race Horde…
how interesting /s
Why not just use the tragedies the alliance has suffered for an increasing rift within the alliance: expand the old question; revenge or justice, and not answer it in such a childishly stupid way as blizzard tried to do now.
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Actually I think it could go into explaining why the Draenei are as tolerant and open minded as they are now.
As opposed to the current situation where they’re just the nicest space goats ya ever did see who don’t hold grudges about genocides or stealing and torturing one of their gods.
Just because.
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25000 years to be a race of refuge is a way to make proud people humble. To make the draenei the first of doing something wrong wouldn´t help in any type or form…it would only give the orcs some kind of excuse, and thats is what you people really want…to make a storyexcuse possible.
instead of let the alliance focus arround their inflicted pains…na, this can´t be happening because the game would be done if we do such a story…right?
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No, I want the Alliance to stop having the sort of morality that would make Superman seem edgy.
Because it’s boring.
Play for Team Messiah or play for Team War Crimes is a stupid basis for a game.
Star Wars Old Republic had the Jedi be morally questionable at times, and the Sith are the most blatantly villainous groups of all time. But they still showed why a reasonable person might mistrust or even hate them.
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it’s worse because everyone knows going in that the Jedi are the Good faction and the Sith are the Evil faction. But with Warcraft marketing Blizzard has always tried to proclaim that neither faction is supposed to be the Good or Evil factions, only to have players join to find out that yes, in-game, you either Serve Jesus as Alliance or Serve Hitler as Horde.
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Several hitlers actually.
You do that by fully recognizing that as it currently stands the Horde has very, very, very little to stand on to justify even a tenth of their actions. Rather than retroactively going back and trying to theorize why those draenei were asking for it. To create complexity that did not exist before.
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Seriously.
Like I was having a ball in OR with my absolutely reprehensible; “I’ve tried whipping them sire but the men are spent” Sith Inquisitor.
Playing the villain can be a lot of fun. I’ve characters in WoW who are villains but it’s pretty damn difficult to play a hero on the Horde.
I’ve managed to. But I couldn’t quite manage being a villain on the Alliance. You’re just so out of place. And I want to like the Alliance.
The Worgen were so cool in the Silverpine questline. They’re framed as wrecking the Forsaken in the first half because the Forsaken didn’t expect them to fight this dirty. Suicide bombers, marching worgified Hillsbrad ex-humans into a killing field as a distraction, and generally just being so crazy that duck mothering Sylvanas was briefly speechless.
And then I try playing them and you don’t get to do anything like that.
I wouldn’t say I’m hopeful but Kul Tiras and Shadow’s Rising were definitely a step in the right direction.
I really enjoyed how Alleria and Turaylon, two heroes of the Alliance with statues built to their greatness welcoming you into Stormwind, straight up torture civilians in front of their shrieking children. Civilians, as in plural, as in they do that more than once. A Forsaken Apothecary stands up to be the voice of moral reason- I loved it.
But here’s the thing, I don’t think Alleria and Turaylon are evil.
I think they were scared, tired, frustrated and were losing a race against the clock. And they just snapped and did something horrific.
That boy who watched them torture his father, who only aided a Dark Ranger to feed him, is going to be looking at those statues in Stormwind some type of way.
And it was pointless too. Kindness from Jania, pleas for mercy to others from the Apothecary and good ole spycraft from Shaw got the game changing Intel that let the Horde stop Blightcaller’s assault on Bwomsamdi.
They just let the Alliance do a genuinely bad thing. Didn’t try to justify it or explain it away.
Thank you Roux for however briefly actually making this a mature story. Not boobs and blood mature - that’s only mature if you’re 12. No actual maturity. Like a story that presents a world where genuinely good people can do awful things if they feel their backs are against the wall.
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The funny thing is SWTOR has even done a better job at making the Sith nuanced than WoW has done so with the Horde. Granted, they have the masterpiece of KOTOR2 writing to build from. But even still.
“We had total control of over 100 Star Systems. Then the Jedi drove us to the farthest fringe of the Galaxy… I still remember the feeling of sunlight on my skin, the scent of favorite foods. The smell, touch, the color of my first love’s eyes… You misunderstand everything. To experience those simple pleasures again would be worth anything.”
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Seriously.
I was genuinely shocked that they actually made the Dark Side into a believable ideology. There’s a pragmatism to them thats perversely admirable.
I’m not saying it’s a society I’d like to live in. But you’ve got to admit there’s a certain beauty to a system that goes;
“Don’t like it? Okay kill me and take over if you’re convinced you can do it better. No seriously that’s not illegal. Nor even frowned upon. We encourage it”.
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Like how the orcs are at blame for being enslaved by the burning legion and whole to blame for the stuff the legion led them to do?
The Legion is the entity most at fault here, the Orcs and the Draenei are both victims of the legion, the draenei did suffer worse, and the orcs have some responsibility for what they did, but the vast bulk of the blame should go to the entity that actually put this all in motion.
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It is really a shame that Kotor2 was such a rushed product. So much was cut out and there are so many game breaking bugs, unless you get the restored content mod.
I really hope they remake it along with Kotor1, but only if they keep all the original dialogue. Kreia is, imo, the best written character in the Star Wars Franchise, and the game itself builds on the philosophy of the Sith and Jedi and the Nature of the force in such a way that is just Chef’s kiss
Such an underrated game and character. Peak Star Wars.
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Yes the Orcs are to blame.
In both cases of being warned and not being warned they still drank the demon blood.
Even without the demon blood they went on a draenei killing spree. Orcs are an unironically really, really problematic race with a terrible culture that encourages war and conquest. Though their culture changes from one clan to the next so they are not equally as problematic.
They have full responsibility for what they did. The blood curse did not control their minds but fueled their battle rage.
Which you say is the draenei… not even the eredar. but the draenei.
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In an alternate universe.
I love the double standards where a race that is deceived by the legion impersonating there ancestors and where they had no forwarning are 100% to blame for the legion’s actions. But an arrogant princeling who’s ego and hubris lead him to dive willingly into their grasp despite being warned, is an innocent victim of the legion who is not responsible for the choices he made.
No, the legion.
The Draenei just screwed over the races of Draenor by not providing any warning of what might be chasing them. it’s not the biggest crime, but it still put their neighbors at risk without knowledge. It’s one of the stones in the rockslide of that situation.
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I’m ashamed to admit I’ve yet to playthrough it. It’s in my Steam library. There with Deus Ex and the OG Fallout in terms of things people who’s opinions I respect promise me are worth it if you can get over the age they’re showing.
Like seriously KOTOR is one of my comfort food games. I love Mass Effect despite it rivaling the 1930s for worst ending. Really gotta knuckle down one of these days.
Its the Breaking Bad problem. Where I already know the story from memes and don’t feel the need to actually go watch it.
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