Daelin Proudmoore did nothing wrong

Garrosh was not part of the horde when Daelin attacked and the Horde that daelin attacked never jumpstarted a war in massive scale after his death.

The bad actors that pushed the horde on the dark side in WOW weren’t the Orcs that thrall led to the foundation of Durotar.

So yeah, Horde did some evil after the third war, but you really can’t blame the Orcs directly. Unless you want to condemn their sense of honor and undying loyalty to their warchief even when they screw things up.

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I think he just wants to blame an entire race for the actions of individuals

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I know, but even that doesn’t exactly work.

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What is this nitpicking? There is no need to be so exacting.

Also, who is the MHP you are referencing?

How many years do you think were between those events? How long do you believe Orcs live? Cause uh… I think you’re confused on something.


I give up. The forums are even more full of fools than before.

Garrosh was a mag’har orc that lived in Outland until TBC, he never went trough the dark portal on the first invasion, he didn’t drink demon blood, and he wasn’t in the internment camps or was attacked by Daelin. Despite not ever having felt the struggle that the Thrall and the horde went trough, he managed to become the most evil Orc we have seen in the game’s history, which again points out how each person is responsible for their own action, and not their upbringing or their genetics.

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I like how you focused on this and not my actual post in response to you.

Varodoc, he used to be on a male human paladin before swapping to a priest with the same name. But as I always say, once a MHP, always a MHP.

Nice to know that you are fine with someone who committed war crimes. Such as trying to assassinate a leader of an opposing nation by inviting them to a peace summit. Thankfully Rexxar knew it was a trap.

Almost like that was the point. Daelin became the very thing he swore to destroy in his quest for vengeance. Like how Arthas became part of the scourge, or how Maiev betrayed Malfurion by lying about Tyrandes fate.

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Amen.
/10chars

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Projection.

Fanfiction & headcanon.

Slavery is humanitarian. Huh. Good to know.

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Seethe or cope i don’t care which

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I can and I will blame the orcs, and Thrall does too, which is why the orcs settled in a worthless wasteland in the middle of nowhere. :slight_smile:

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I mean, orcs arent real, there isnt any blame.

But the story being told is also different from what you say. The truth is, the bad actors on the horde ever since the start of WoW haven’t been the orcs that thrall lead to Kalimdor.

And even if one of them was, it is still the decision of an individual being, not the entire race.

Thinking otherwise is a slipperly slope, the one that led daelin’s hatred to flourish, that made Jaina attempt to drown Orgrimmar.

It is totally fair to hate garrosh or Sylvanas (in universe or as how they were written), it is not now nor ever wise to blame someone’s action on their race or species.

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Valid points but there is a flip side to that; the Forsaken. I love playing these evil bastards but it seems like Sylvanas has to shoulder the blame for everything they do…which is weird considering the major selling point of them is that they’re undead with free will. So there’s a little nuance there which I think sadly gets lost on people.

Well, like you said, the forsaken have free will, there are probably evil forsaken and good forsaken, but their actions are their own, same for any other race.

Maybe you could say some races have some inclination towards evil due to their nature, like the forsaken, but even that I don’t consider fair to lump their entire nation as evil by default.

So you think slavery is okay then?
That I’m wrong because I’m brainwashed?

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Mmmm… yes and no?

Deteriorating experiences between the two factions certainly led to certain unfortunate mindsets within the orc’s population that Thrall refused to address, for a variety of reasons.

Case in point: https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Thrall#The_Shattering

There were other troubles, such as an orc attack on a group of Sentinels in Ashenvale which was in direct violation of the Horde-Alliance treaty. The Sentinels had been skinned and then chopped up into pieces, left for carrion feeders. Whether or not they had been alive when they were skinned was debatable. The skins of the murdered night elves were hung on trees that had painted Horde symbols depicted on them; written with elven blood. Since the night elves have ceased to allow Horde members into Ashenvale in protest of the incident at the Wrathgate, many orcs celebrated this attack. With the Horde's supplies almost depleted on account of the war with the Lich King and the unusual droughts affecting Orgrimmar, many orcs viewed the night elves' exclusion of the Horde from their trade routes unfairly brutal. He received a letter from King Varian Wrynn demanding to denounce the attacks and turn over any attackers he could find to the Alliance for justice. Thrall refused to turn over violators of the treaty (he had his own suspects in mind, but lacked any proof, and he felt turning over the violates to face Alliance justice would hurt orc morale) and also refused to apologize for the thievery of the night elves' goods, the murders, or the brutal methods in which they were performed. Though he did express anger that the treaty had been violated, his unwillingness to publicly reprimand those who use brutal methods to assault Alliance members greatly weakened his popularity with Alliance leaders.

By no means does the above somehow prove Daelin true, however. As noted, had relations between the factions not reach the point they had, the general mindset of the orcs at the time might’ve been vastly different.

The writers will often use wide strokes of the brush to paint a narrative. You’ll never be wrong in saying, “Well, not every member of this race felt that way,” but that’s ignoring the intent of the narrative that was being spun at the time. It doesn’t have to be everyone, or even a majority, for the sentiment to be valid.

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Thrall disagrees.

Enjoy the desert. :smile:

I’m being specific about the orcs after the events of wc3.

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You mean the orcs that gleefully rampaged across Ashenvale twice?

Yeah, as I said, enjoy the desert.

Thats warfare, it isn’t pretty, but happens on both sides, all races in wow have done it, maybe not the vulpera.

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That’s the orcs. They are guilty of countless crimes and must atone by living in a desert, as decreed by their own leader, Thrall, it’s all rather simple to understand.

Why do people insist on painting the orcs as good people?! They are NOT good.

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