Yes, yes it was antidotal, and your note about people being happy they came back is once again, antidotal. Its completely subjective and from your experience, not the factually proven and empirically based knowledge that one would be known to use.
It is factually known that not everyone liked the return of curses. It is factually known that curses see very little play in pve and mostly in niche situations. These are facts. If you dont like them i do not care.
Maybe you shouldnât be speaking on topics like this from your limited experience until you learn what âantidotalâ means
You really need to take a break, finish highschool, and then try again man. Then maybe we can at least attempt begin the conversation on to how properly keybind your curses so you can actually use them because i am having a lot of user error concerns here
I mean ânot everyoneâ is a very vague term. Are we talking 80% of player population were unhappy or 8%? Cause if its the latter then we really shouldnât care
Also, an earlier iteration of curse of weakness worked by reducing physical damage by a flat amount which was much stronger vs faster attack speeds (ie rogues, hunter pets, feral druids, etc). The current version is a percentage speed reduction which is agnostic to the type of weapon attacks made.
Hense why i said âid venture,â yet, even if they were on the bars, they are very unlikely to be used. At first, i had them on my bars but they were just clutter. I like a clean ui. They were removed and i was much happier. Other locks ive talked to have done the same. Honestly, that entire âmoveâ blizz did was a complete failure and only muddled action bars. I would of loved if they brought something meaningful back. That would have been cool. Meaningful = rotational / game changing. But niche, stick on your action bars and forget or in corruptionâs case for demo, not even that, it failed.
That doesnât sound like no body likes them, that sounds like they need improvements.
Iâve talked to quite a few locks and their consensus has been that curses are underpowered, but desire improvements towards making them more powerful. One of the biggest asks being an aoe curse methodology. One global to smart apply curses to a group changes a niche curse into valuable mitigation.
But it sounds like you personally donât like them, so want them to go. It doesnât make a lot of sense. In general the consensus seems to be âI like curses but theyâre underpowered and difficult to use in AoE, please improveâ
Eh, kind of.
Yes, i dont like them. Yes, other locks dont like them. Myself and others want them gone. Others want them modified. Other white knighters thibk they are perfect. That is the way of the world.
The issue with curses is that they are micromanaging, they are like you said, singular in nature, and they are extremely niche. In raid, your sure as heck know i aint giving up dps to micromanage a curse every 30 secs. Or i aint spamming curses on 10 different adds during a boss fight. The same is applied to mythic+. Too much of a headache. Its hard enough just to get into mythic +, let alone have to worry about some d0uche complain about dps when im using curses. No ty. Just aint worth the headache.
Plus, for clarity here, i am a heroic raider and a mid level mythic + player. If i use or dont use curses isnt going to make or break a run. I purposefully chose to play at that level. I dont want the hassle of having to use all that extra crap.
In a nutshell, curses are just another thing players have to worry about and frankly i prefer to play the game to relieve stress, not create it.
Now, for pvp, i totally get it. Curses are wonderful. I can see their usefulness there. For pve, not so much.
Everything is micromanage-y, especially when you have certain self-buffs to maintain to keep dps up. Doesnât make it un-fun.
Why not? They can be incredibly effective, especially when used in appropriate circumstances. Back in shadowlands (ugh) the nathria council fight was basically made redundant just using the curse of tongues on the caster boss cause it extended the mechanic to such a degree that it made it trivial to get a kick out in time. You donât have to be top dps to be managing a debuff that helps the raid pass a fight, but if youâre too lazy to handle it doesnât make it bad.
Curses, conceptually, are great. Thereâs a lot of things that need to be fixed about them but initially an aoe methodology is all thatâs needed to make them valued.
Same, thereâs many things many classes can/could use that donât make or break a run. Doesnât make them non-value adds. Doesnât mean they arenât useful when applied in specific scenarios. Doesnât mean they donât bring value when they are utilized. You donât even have to be a top level player, a strategically used weakness/tongues curse in the right pull on low keys with a noob tank and/or healer can make a WORLD of difference.
You really just seem to be against curses personally, regardless of facts or not. Theyâre great, but definitely need improvements. Though right now 80% of those issues are resolved simply with a way to smart add curses to groups. Literally, just bring back Impending Catastrophe into the class tree, curses will get a LOT more usage.
First, yes, i do not like curses. Not because i think they cant be useful, but because of how they were implemented. Blizz has this idea of rolling back some things to make classes feel unique again and out of hundreds of things they could have chosen that would have been amazing, they chose the least benefitual. So, yes, i personally hate them bc they were a missed opportunity.
Second, again, in regards to your example, its a very niche example. A good example, but still limited in its scope. Hense the overall problem with curses. Second, they require you to sacrifice dps for mediocre benefits. Really, i can count on my hand how many times curses will actually out benefit the dps loss to use them.
But, i mean, if we were to go down the rabbit hole, there would have to be substantial changes to curses to make them mainstream, and i really dont see blizz doing it. But honestly, i WOULDNT want blizz to do it bc there are wayyyyy more important things to fix atm than curses. In fact, they are probably one of the lowest priority atm.
But for the sake of giggles, here are a few. 1. Blizz needs to wrap all the curses into one, make it smart, and make it a 5 min long. Trying to back and forth between cast and attack speed, etc⌠is just a pain. 2. Blizz needs to implement 2 aoe ways of applying. First, rotationally. Perhaps via vile taint, hand, or catalyst and second, through a second means where you dont want to automatically apply curses or spend the point to add curses. 3. If your going to make curses an actual thing, then you have to make the situations that they work more common, but this leans into allowing curses to be applied rotationally. 4. We already have massive issues with double and triple taxed spells, so adding more tax on spells just to add curses would not fly. 5. If curses are a morr common thing, then have them interact with dps more and buff dps.
This is just a few ideas. But in a nutshell, unless curses get a complete overhaul ( we DONT want bc there are far more important things we need), they just need to stay as they are⌠in the spellbook.
So poor implementation invalidates their purpose? That seems unfair, its a mechanic that players enjoy, seems unreasonable to take them away simply because how they were brought in was bad implementation. Modify them, upgrade them sure, but taking them away seems a bit brusque.
Specific, but not invalid. Just because the raid/m+ design hasnât lent itself to its use case doesnât make it bad. Look at Poison Cleanse Totem, almost pointless for a couple of expansions. Then one m+ mechanic gets cleared because of it and BLAM, all of a sudden it needs a nerf. It still brings value, especially for fights with constant casts (thinking Broodtwister with the caster worms).
Hardly. Just make AoEing them easier and theyâll instantly be mainstream. Definitely need some changes past that, but that alone fixes a lot.
Gross, whats the point of different curses then? Youâre killing a lot of the fun with them being separate trying to squish them into a single spell. To say nothing of massively imbalancing their effectiveness with a 5 min duration.
Impending Catastrophe, literally the only thing needed.
They already work well in common situations, the issue is applying them without killing dps. So one cast of Impending Catastrophe fixes that.
Not curses fault, though definitely a weakness in the class tree that should be addressed.
Not by too much, 2-3% increases in physical/magical damage received would even be bordering on to much. But requires the weakness/tongues separation maintained.
Hard disagree on the need for a complete overhaul (though addressing boss usage would be good), just throw Impending Catastrophe in the class tree and you solve 80-90% of the issues of curses.
My perspective is valid to me and while invalid to you still warrants justification for analysis.
Poison totem example. Sounds more like a blizz problem than a spell problem tbh. It almost seems like a whoops.
Not gross. You should try to identify with players who are overstimulated with having to know every mob and every situation that needs either caster or melee curse. Its a game, not a job. That sort of play is for mythic players. If you want that level go there. I am ok with using them if i dont have to micromanage which one and for how long. Id rather focus on perfecting my dps and not getting killed.
Impending castastrophe failed for numerous reasons. 1. Cast time. 2. Travel time. 3. Poor dmg. 4. Splash dmg. Then ultimately knowing blizz they would double and triple tax with 2 shards and a 30 sec cd. Why would i even consider adding that to my rotation? Thats the real gross thing here. Absolutely no thanks. Plus, why the extra spell? We dont need it. Like i said. Add it to vt, hand, and cata. Simple. Effective. None rotational changing.
Yes, curses should add a 3% dmg increase. Its hard to sell locks to groups past cookies and ports.
Its rly not that simple. IC is just not the answer like i stated above. Plus the class tree has massive issues that need fixed already. It has too many defensives. Cornerstone talents are crap. Bunch of +health/leech nodes, buffing drain health nodes when drain health does zero healing. Very few pet nodes. It needs more throughput nodes. More offensive pet nodes. Doomguard needs to become a cornerstone talent with nodes to modify its dmg for different situations. Mobility nodes need baseline. I mean, i can go on for awhile. Curses are just not something that anyone is concerned about bc no one uses them. They are so niche. Thats this entire argument. Sure they can be improved and i am for that 100%, but not at the cost of getting these other things addressed. Blizz is like grandma with her check book. You get very little from it. So you must be strategic with what you ask for.
Indeed so! I wouldnât respond otherwise. Doesnât mean I have to agree at all.
Yes, thatâs my point.
Which is why smart AoEing simplifies, when you can just blast into a group and whoever needs whichever curse just gets it. Keeping it separate then allows for you to apply when needed to specific enemies when thereâs only 1-2 (boss fight/priority target scenarios).
It failed for one reason, 80-90% of the warlock playerbase went with Ardenweald cause the soulbinds were simply better for most play. One of the reasons the soulbinds concept in and of itself was a major failure in design (the soulbinds should have literally been the same, only change between covenants should have been thematic). IC itself, while needing some fixing up, was a great spell in a bad covenant.
Thatâs just introducing a class arms race, seeing who brings the biggest buffs. If curses could be easier applied to a majority of groups, thatâd help a lot in and of itself.
Call me greedy then, cause I want it all. Improved tree, improved curses, improved rotations. Blizzard, as a sub division of Microsoft, is a multi-billion dollar company. I have no intention to limit my focus of what I want just cause theyâre stingy.
I will ask for everything I want, Blizz internally should have the processes and people to determine what is in scope, what supports their vision for the game, and what they want to focus on. If they can squeeze some curse changes in for a patch that they donât have time to address tree changes on, then all for it! If they donât change curses but change the tree, all for it! But theyâre the arbiters of how their time is spent, best thing we can do is make clear our preferences on a wide range of subjects and let what will happen, happen.
The curses are useful, and theyâre on my bars. A lot of warlocks lamented their loss during the button pruning and Iâm very happy theyâre back.
In Zekvirâs Lair, using amplified CoW prevents him from critting for 4 million.
A spammable, ranged snare will always have uses, and is incredibly strong in flag capture battlegrounds. Itâs saved my butt in Delves when my pet goes down and I have to create some distance.
CoW is a great way to get rid of Warriors spell reflect.
As Demonology, having an instant cast spell to tag rares or quest mobs before they explode is great.
Allow me to introduce you to a society of Warlocks called The Black Harvest, who utilises their skills and knowledge of dark powers to prevent destruction and protect the world
