Because Kevin Jordan made a mistake. Same with Ret in vanilla.
You are not looking at the game from a balanced perspective.
Add up the raid benefit Ele and Enhance bring, on top of their DPS.
EDIT: I used to do this for my raid back in TBC.
Look at the various totems, if you have a melee DPS group.
Look at the Bloodlust chains.
Look at their personal DPS.
That IGNORES the fact that yes, you CAN throw a heal if need be.
I raided as Ret in TBC originally, and I may stick with my Shaman (who is a WF/Chain Heal BOT in Classic) for TBC, or I may do something else.
As noted, there will already be 5 shaman in raid, they sure dont need a buff lol.
What a weird concept. Because theyâre brought for their utility, they shouldnât be allowed to deal damage.
They already DO deal damage.
Did you raid TBC?
Like I know your excited and all to swing some hammers in TBC, but if you did damage like a lock, while bringing the massive raid buffs a shaman brings, thats not remotely balanced, in any way.
But theyâre not allowed to do more, according to you.
Absolutely. Elemental was pretty good at the start but fell way behind others because it didnât scale, and didnât have any debuff to help them scale. They continued to be largely utility and little else past T5 at the latest.
If Iâm Enhancement, Iâm melee. Nobody is asking for the same damage as one of the top two classes. But the ability to scale is the important thing.
Enhancement and Elemental (as well as other hybrid specs) get left in the dust. Do I think that should be addressed in TBC Classic? No. But that doesnât mean it wasnât a problem then and defending it is a good thing.
Problem is, you have to give, if your going to get buffs. That path leads to the class balance changes in Wrath, and eventual homogenization.
We cleared sunwell, and our Enhance Shaman was doing meaningful damage.
Nobody is saying Shaman shouldnt scale. All Iâm saying is if you have a mountain of raid utility, you dont get to ask for top damage as well.
We already give lots of utility, and itâs why DPS Shaman are continued to be brought to the lategame raids. If we didnât have that and only had a bit more damage (which adding Nature to CoE would be) no one would bring a DPS Shaman period.
The point is asking to not be forgotten. As Iâve said, not really appropriate for TBC Classic, but itâs what Hunters felt in Classic when AP buffs wouldnât give them RAP.
Nobody is asking for top damage, like I said already. Theyâre asking to actually scale. And sadly, Ele and Enh donât - they get better, but nowhere near the skyrocketing that Hunters, Warlocks, Rogues, and Warriors get.
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The OP IS asking for that tho. If you read not just the first post but others that are made along the way the OP complains that every raid is going to have 4 hunters and 4 locks based on nothing but the fact they do â25% more damageâ than shaman. And that is the reason the OP wants this buff, to stop the stacking of hunters and warlocks. The OP complains REPEATEDLY about an âAbsurd amount of locks and huntersâ
When your argument is effectively âI want to buff shamanâs damage to stop the absurd amount of warlocks and huntersâ because âpeople want damageâ then you are logically asking for shaman damage to be equal to hunter and warlock. Otherwise people would continue to play hunter and lock cause they would still be more damage and nothing would change.
The only way this debuff change would stop the stacking of locks and hunters is if it buffed shamans enough to do so. At which point you just start stacking shamans instead. While COE is the only change directly asked for, the goal of the post is to make shamans competitive damage dealers so you have more shamans. To be a competitive damage dealer they would have to become top damage.
Iâm not seeing where +10% damage is equivalent to the debuff benefits for Warlocks - in this case, Curse of Elements (+10%), Shadow Weaving (+10%), and Imp. Shadow Bolt (+20%) which will have near 100% uptime in the later raids. This isnât including things that Elemental does benefit from like Misery (+5%). Thereâs probably more that I didnât think of immediately but itâs 1 AM.
No, Iâm asking for Shaman to be brought to their raid for more than just their utility during later tiers when we fall behind everyone except other hybrids. Simply because we donât scale anywhere near as they do and have far fewer debuff support.
And again, this isnât really appropriate for Classic TBC. I am going to play a Shaman fully understanding the problems. Iâm arguing the principle of it, and maybe one day Classic TBC+ - in that itâd have similar changes like Classic is having with the WB potion.
Nothing short of massive buffs will stop the stacking, and that doesnât matter as much. But it means less when Shaman (and, hopefully, other hybrids to an extent) are able to do more damage and so the raid doesnât have to lean on the highest DPS classes as much.
Iâm not demanding Shaman be competitive with Warlocks and Hunters. Youâre talking to me.
Well elemental spells really do not draw upon the arcane. They draw on the elements. You basically awaken the destructive force of the elements. I meanâŚitâs not even rocket science even in an imaginary world. A rock for example. it can be either mudslide, avalanche, buried alive hence destructive. or it can be solid, fortified, used to build defenses hence Protective. This isnât arcane. This is awakening the spirit of elementals making and purpose. Water drowns, floods, ebbs and flows. or it can cleanse, renew or invigorate. You have to understand that the devs at the time and still now try to incorperate the purpose of magic as it was designed in their world; of Warcraft.
So your argument is that Curse of Elements (read, elements, like Elemental) only affects arcane magic⌠but thatâs changed in 3.0.
Also, why wouldnât a curse designed to make an enemy take more magical damage affect all magical types?
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Are you saying you are the OP but posting on a different char?
When i was saying âYour argumentâ i meant that as the generic term âyourâ refering to the OP, not you. Unless you ARE the OP on a second char.
I mean I donât think his argument was ever buff them out of their mind either. Just that giving us what he actually asked for is a small thing to close the gap just a little - if Elemental for example do more damage, you have less reliance on the highest DPS.
Curse of Arcane, Frost, Fire and Shadow just didnât have the same ring to it.
I do chuckle at the irony that Curse of Elements does nothing to support the class which is thematically the master of the elements.
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Itâs possible i read more into his later posts than i should have. But the logic still reads to me as âI want to reduce the number of hunters and locks in raid by buffing shaman dps.â which equals âI want to increase the number of shaman dpsâ which requires âI want shaman dps almost at or on par with locks and huntersâ.
In that context, the original request is a stepping stone.
In my experience âClose the gapâ as both you and he put it typically refers to eliminating the advantages a party has over another entirely. When i read this line that it will âhelp close the gapâ i read it as âin addition to other future changes which will eliminate it entirely.â
You (actual you not generic term) are clearly saying close the gap A LITTLE. As long as locks and hunters still do significant more damage than shaman overall, Iâd support a little boost.
But several of the OPs comments make me feel the first post is not the end-all of the request.
Shamans sure, Druids? No boomkin uses wrath till WOTLK. Starfire spam is superior in every way. Though I donât disagree, should be a curse of all damage forms.
There is little to no reason at all to restrict the single other element from the same benefits of literally everything else in the game on one specific ability. Everyone here that says nay are the same #nochanges shills everywhere else, I see the same names everywhere. Donât listen to them blizzard
The change doesnât âfixâ one hybrid. It is a small scaling increase to elemental shaman, and not one thatâs remotely ridiculous. Why a curse buffs fire and frost (elemental damage) and shadow and arcane (shadow magic) but not nature (elemental damage) while being called Curse of Elements can ONLY be answered by âwell, thatâs how they designed itâ shrug. It has nothing to do with TBC philosophy and everything to do with a clear design flaw with giving the nature school a single niche debuff (Stormstrike) which is usually just chomped up by a rogue with Instant Poison in their offhand.
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Shamans need love too.
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My dad works for blizzard and the change is indeed confirmed, no caster should feel left out!
In addition: All shaman nature damage decreased by 10-13% (depending if you have an affy in your group)
Keep fighting for what you believe in!