Current gearing systems are not casual friendly

Community General Discussion
105

Honestly, for being this early in the expansion this is probably the MOST alt-friendly expansion I’ve ever seen.

I had a warrior ding max level and within a couple of weeks was in the mid 340s. After a month he was 375+.

My biggest issue is that the catch-up mechanics are no longer about bringing new characters up to speed. Instead they are…keep-up mechanics? Within the patch itself there exists ways outside of “hardcore” content to gain relevant gear in just about all facets of gameplay. This has led to the very weird situation here my “main” actually has the WORST gear AND azurite traits out of all 3 toons I have at max level.

Which leads me to swap to one of the other characters more often because azurite traits can be quite impactful.

Idk…its a weird situation.

106

My alts complete world quests faster with more gear so not sure what you mean. This gives me a reason to consume more content than I normally would.

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107

Hey, just want to add onto her notes of the issues.

It’s sort of a weird flood of gear. At first it’ll simple to gear up. Quest, dg’s, ect. The usual stuff.

But, there is what I call the “Gear flood” where you get to Say 340?/355 current season And what occurs is that every, EVERY source of activity begins shoving higher and higher gear at you like a machine gun!

Suddenly, you realize that you get most of your gear from World Quest/emissary/Warfronts. Before you know it, you are 370+ in but a few/1 day.

What has happened here? LFR becomes irrelevant, heroic DGS become irrelevant, and many skip mythic and just jump right into mythic +. From a casual perspective, I have passed the gear threshold of enjoyment, and I start to realize since I don’t raid/Mythic + I do raid/mythic +, but my guild has gone spiraling down because of these reasons . I have nowhere to go, suddenly feeling a stop in content.

In all thoughts, World quest should always, ALWAYS stay below Mythic dgs/LFR/PVP.

Warfronts are fine with gear, but we NEED to make warfronts matter more than it has. Simply afking for gear is not content.

I would be fine if we went back to the drawing board of who warfronts are for. If it’s for casual, then it should be a 1 time experience like siege of lorderon.

If it’s for raiders and such, it should be designed as such with the possibility of wiping.

In fact, when warfronts were on the Beta, we LOVED them BECAUSE they were hard, this is including everyone putting in effort to!

TL’DR: We need less sources for gear to make content that requires skill/time and effort be more relevant.

Or hell, if you intend to stick to the idea of what Crucible of storms is looking to be. Raid gear consisting of unique abilities within the armor itself, while mythic + is just a stat stick I would prefer that WAY more over the system we have now.

6 Likes
108

There aren’t too many sources for rewards. Every activity should offer a reward. The problem is there is no way to target a reward. Everything is random but isn’t really. Today, I received three shoulders of 355 doing world quests. Even at 33%, one of those items would have been a head piece or chest in a rewarding system. Sometimes, I’ll go a week and get belts. Not one or three belts but enough belts to open a shop with.

Maybe all I want are a pair of pants. Or a staff with Agility (you don’t make these anymore though). I would like to do content and be able to target a pair of pants that doesn’t take me months of RNG to get through. It could be any item but we should be able to work towards specific slots. This is more enjoyable than having RNG piled ontop of RNG which is piled ontop of more RNG. 99.99999% of rewards just get scrapped or sold for gold. Neither scrapping or gold is exciting. Not getting a reward for weeks on end isn’t exciting.

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109

So you do not care about the people that WANT there to always be something to do, because you like it when the game provides you with a way to stop. How about you just set your own personal goal of a stop point and let the other players keep on playing?

110

What do you need the gear for if you aren’t doing challenging content? I am really confused here…

I am pretty casual and 386 is fine for doing emissary stuff…what do I do that I need to be 410+?

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111

Honestly there’s a lot of content I do just for the reward that I’d rather not. Take for example BGs vs WQs. I can spend a few minutes doing 4 WQs for a 385 or I can spend days doing BGs - which are exponentially more fun - for a 385. That’s not at all balanced, but since you’re making it so easy, I feel like I have to do those WQs I don’t want to do.

Same for the WF - why are you giving me a 400 for doing Darkshore? I’d much rather get that 400 for some low level M+'s or a few BGs.

So instead what I get is a few pieces of great gear for very little effort - WQs, WF, etc. - and when it comes time to do what I really want to do - BGs and Dungeons - I out-gear that content and don’t even feel like doing it for nothing.

Ideally I’d ignore Islands, WQs, WFs, Invasions, most weeklies. I’d ideally focus on BGs and Dungeons. But the previous stuff is so easy for so much reward, I have to do it and am left without reason to do the content that’d harder and more enjoyable. I’d much prefer you balance effort vs reward better. If I’m spending 15 minutes doing 4 WQs, I really shouldn’t get anything better than low level blues. And once in a blue moon, guaranteed win WF? Put that back at 340. Or preferably, give me tokens for everything like BC/WOTLK era and slow it all down.

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112

TBH what was wrong with old loot system of gearing in content? (when gear actually dropped reliably back in TBC/wrath/etc)

Back then we didnt have M+ content nor did we have 4 raid difficulties.

the current model just seems like a punishment to make you gear slower and to sweep under rug content drought type stuff so ppl play logner and feel rewarded for their play time.

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113

I’m super casual, only really getting to play a few hours a week. For me it’s nice that I can log in and que up for a 25 minute warfront and get a 400 piece when I do play. BUT, at the same time it feels pretty silly. Really wish that the war fronts were made as true PVP events instead: like wintergrasp. And then after you win you had a chance to fight the world boss for loot instead of having it guaranteed. The game does give too much away for sure. The devs should take note that the excitement we used to feel of getting a shiny new piece of loots has been taken away in the new over saturated loot system.
You can have casual friendly progression, but we should feels like we earned it and it wasn’t a “Thank you” for logging in.

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114

Unstable Arcanocrystal. /micdrop

(I know it’s from last expansion, but I’m still bitter about it.)

If “done” is defined as “no further possible upgrades can be obtained from this content”, my opinion is that players should be done within one month of finishing (not starting, finishing) the tier of content that is most appropriate for their skill level.

Once a player reaches “done” at a non-Mythic-raid tier of content, they always have the option to move up to the next tier. Some players will want to do so. Others won’t.

If a player is legitimately enjoying your game, they’ll move up to the next tier after reaching “done” solely because it exists and allows them to continue to improve their character.

On the other hand, if a player isn’t enjoying your game, they’ll quit after reaching “done”. Which is probably why the current implementation of titanforging is a thing, because it ensures that literally nobody ever reaches “done” ever no matter how much content they complete or what level they play at.

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115

Done? I don’t want to be done. I want to have reason to keep playing until you release new content. Sure I like alts so sometimes I’m going to want to play those, so maybe you need room for that. But you also have to consider what type of content people are targeting. If someone wants to do Mythic raiding, they’re going to need time to progress that far. But if I’m stopping at low level M+ and random BGs and want to spend the rest of the time I have on alts, it all balances out. I can split my time between 2 or more characters, as time allows, and progress each more slowly but still get to play my desired content for long enough to gear out before new content releases. This however would require slowing down the current progression pace, and making the easier and faster content give far worse rewards than they do now.

Now your question is, what about the Mythic raiders who want to alt? Well to that I say, make crafting great again. Mythic raiders will have the time and money for other endeavors that us casuals will not, so make it viable for them to gear out an alt via purchased crafted gear with maybe a handful of other random stuff. That way they can catch up their alts much faster, without altering the default progression system for us casuals.

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116

Stop designing a friggen mmo for people who only have 30 min a week to play. That would be a great start. There’s little for people to bite into this expansion because it all feels like it’s designed to be done fast by the fortnite kids. Nothing of real substance with all rng rewards makes wow feel empty and hollow.

Stop chasing non mmo fans ffs.

8 Likes
117

You realize you just contradicted yourself, right? Which is it, do you want to have reason to play until new content, or do you want time for other things?

Some of us prioritize a main over alts. When I feel “done” with a character I move on to leveling an alt. I haven’t felt done with this character all expansion.

118

I think the crux of the point is that there is no progression for casuals because items/ilvl are too quickly and easily obtained. Its great for gearing an army of alts, but its terrible for casuals who want a sense of progression to their gameplay. When things that are good are earned to quickly and easily, they lose a sense of value and fulfillment.

9 Likes
119

Thanks Bornakk for having this discussion with us, and I will attempt to weigh in my experiences with the current feel of gearing. I am unaware of what the general population considers the current proper nomenclature usage of “Casual”, but I would consider myself to be a “Skilled Casual” i.e. I’ve in the past been a mythic raider but now play the game for 5-6 hours a week in total or less.

When BoD launched around mid January, my warlock was still level 115. A few friends of mine returned to the game and asked me to play lock for some casual mythic plus. I hit 120 within the first week and a half of BoD opening and began to do basic content: Warfronts when available, emissaries when they give gear, first wing of LFR, the first couple of normal mode bosses, and 1-2 mid to low lvl m+ keys. Within about a weeks time, I had ascertained enough gear to get into some 1st boss heroic pugs and was able to do some 8-10 level m+ keys. Just for reference, I am the only cloth wearer in my group so no gear trading outside accessories.

After 2 weeks of playing 5-6 hours a week as a fresh 120, my emissaries were now droping 385s. LFR ,1 warfront, and Normal mode was pretty much obsolete. Started doing first 3 or so bosses on heroic with pugs for about 1.5 hours a week and 3-4 lvl 10-12 m+ keys that we were now easily timing. Fast forward another two weeks and I am now pushing past 400 ilvl and have nothing really to do that can progress me forward outside of farming m+ and hoping for titanforges or joining a mythic raid group which is a substantial time investment (Well beyond 6 hours total commitment weekly when you factor in non-raid responsibilites). I feel like heroic is more or less obsolete except for 1-2 items here and there but nothing of WOAH factor that would make it worth needing to spend 6 hours or so a week that most heroic only guild groups put in as there is no cool class tier gear sets with set bonuses achievable from raids anymore.

I feel that I have made all non mythic content obsolete within 4-5 weeks of playing on a fresh 120 only 5 or so hours per week. At my current point, my goal should be to get enough residiuum to fish for my 415 azerite pieces, but because im such a fresh 120 and don’t play alot, I wouldn’t even be able to use the pieces since my neck isnt high enough level to even unlock most of the traits. I still don’t even have defensive traits yet on my 400’s.

In short, as a barely 5 week old fresh 120 playing 5 hours a week with a decent skill level, I have run out of achievable content that is relevant to further progression my character without needing to push into mythic raiding commitments which without a doubt require much more time inside and outside of raid than what I currently play in total per week.

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120

They pay the same money

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121

I think any sense of progression is dulled because of the current version of ilvl scaling in world content. Legion’s version was fine and not overly oppressive, BfA’s version is just terrible.

122

I agree with everything in this post. I’m in almost the same situation.

It’s unfortunate that people skimmed through it or gave it no critical thought before adding pithy replies.

5 Likes
123

While it’s important for those with limited time to do things they want to do for a reward, having too many options is bad for people who aren’t short on time.

This pushes people towards doing everything available, especially if they are heroic raiding or higher.

What would work better is having something like a valor meter that can be filled with a variety of activity that is capped weekly that can be used to purchase rewards.

This will allow those with limited time to do what they want, while not making others feel like they need to do everything that is available.

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124

You can get from fresh 120 to IL 370 in like 4 days. I don’t see how this game could be anymore casual friendly than it already is.

1 Like