Current Class Balancing (DPS) 10/30/24

PVP Arenas
21

Hi friend, hope you are well.

Good question, I think it requires a nuanced understanding of what mechanics are making it stand out at top level play, and whether those same mechanics are being utilized at lower ratings. If the mechanics at the high end aren’t being utilized by say, the bottom 75%, then nerfing those mechanics is a valid way to reduce it’s effectiveness at top level play, while having little impact on the bottom 75%.

How you do that would require a rogue player w/a deeper understanding of the spec than I have.

Good / viable to what demographic of players? Does viability to “top ratings” matter when 99.9% of players don’t get there / even try to get there? My overall point was that most specs can attain 2400 in 3s (I think the only outliers to this are Destro Warlock, Fire mage, aug evoker, and the tank specs).

22

Good point, but here we also have the problem. They barely do any real design tunings. Mostly only damage/healing buffs and nerfs. But to reduce setup options, so the spec gets nerfed on top ratings without affecting the other 90% is something, they don’t do.

That is true, but for some specs its too easy and for others its not easy enough. That was the point I was trying to make with my post. :wink::+1:

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23

I agree, but every dps spec in the game is currently viable to 2.4k cr in 3v3 except for Destro Warlock, Fire mage and Aug evoker (if you count it).

That seems reasonable to me, no? (Buff destro so bolt hits hard, because it doesn’t, contrary to what people want to think).

I agree with you, too easy for some, not easy enough for others

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24

That’s what the awc usually ends up being yes. They find whatever is 0.1% better and spam it.

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25

Lmao. Hopefully blizzard doesn’t do balancing by looking at stats like this.

26

Are you suggesting they should trust your gut feeling or your very subjective opinion instead? :wink:

Personally, I think it’s more important for each class to have at least one strong specialization rather than trying to balance every single spec right away!

For example, a Destruction Warlock main usually prefers playing Destruction over Affliction. However, we all know that Warlocks often switch to whichever spec is currently performing the best, especially at higher ratings, where other players tend to follow the lead of the top Warlocks. This doesn’t necessarily mean that Destruction isn’t viable!

That’s why I tend to talk about DPS classes instead of individual specs. Of course, there are exceptions like Elemental/Enhancement Shamans, Feral/Balance Druids, and Hunters, because they feel almost like different classes - melee vs. caster. If Feral Druid isn’t viable, the Feral is less likely to switch to Balance Druid and more likely to look for another melee option, like Assassination Rogue.

I understand where you’re coming from, my friend, but it seems like you’re trying to justify your opinion about the state of Enhancement Shamans. :wink: While I see your point, it doesn’t really apply to the classes that are currently struggling, such as Demon Hunter, Death Knight, Monk, Paladin, Warrior, and Balance Druid.

Recently some classes/specs like Warrior, Balance Druid, Paladin and Mage have been buffed, so they’ll likely become more viable, which should be reflected in the leaderboards over the next few weeks. But what about DH, DK and Monk? When will they get the buffs they need to enjoy the game too?

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27

About what exactly? You’re the one who made this post. Sell to me what these stats mean.

28

There’s no opinion. You took random stats and completely misrepresented them. From your own words there are only 14 enhancement shamans that are 2400+, all of whom are probably die hard enhance players and will reach that rating regardless, and then you hyperinflated the % of them on the ladder

29

Sorry, my friend. I thought it was mostly self-explanatory.

Simply put, you check how many players of a class have over 1000 rating and how many of those have reached 2400+ rating. From this, you calculate an average. For example, in 3v3 with Feral, there are 2429 players over 1000 rating in the EU and NA combined. Out of these 2429 players, a total of 43 have also reached 2400+ rating.

43 divided by 2429 gives you about 0.0177. Multiplied by 1000 (per mille = per thousand), you get around 17.7. This simply means that for every 1000 Feral players over 1000 rating, 17.7 players have reached elite rating. In contrast, for DH, it’s only 2.43 out of 1000 players.

This allows us to draw some conclusions based on the ladder about which classes are currently underperforming and need buffs. It also indirectly shows us which classes are too strong, although there is some margin for error because very skilled players who boost many characters of their class can skew the results, especially if it’s a class/spec that’s played less frequently. For example, Enhancement Shaman is certainly strong, but it might be portrayed as slightly too strong in this analysis.

Was that helpful to understand? :blush:

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30

Stats are not self explanatory lmao.

31

Random stats? 1000 Rating is required to generate a Gladiator / Legend Spot and is literally achievable by anyone who actively plays that Class/Spec. 2400 Rating is the Elite Rating which is the base requirement of achieving those titles.

Further did I took NA and EU together to get more player count to indirectly reduce the susceptibility to errors and took 3s plus RSS ladders to get a good overall picture.

Where is the random factor?

That is indeed true (13 instead of 14), but what you’re not considering is that players of other classes also have many characters in of their class!

So even if it’s true that the view on Enhancement Shaman isn’t 100% accurate, you can’t pretend that’s the only reason for their strong performance based on my analysis.

For instance, there are a total of 11 different WW Monk players over 2400 rating in Shuffle. That are 2 less than Enhancement Shamans, even though there are almost 4 times as many WW Monk players! So when they would be somewhat equally strong, we would need to see around 50 WW Monks on 2400 combined from both regions, not 11!

1 Like
32

What kind of changes would you like to see based on this data?

33

You’re assuming there’s a consistent skill level across specs. DK and dh are historically overtuned specs which take multiple weeks to get nerfed sometimes. The moment they aren’t top tier the good players run to the next fotm spec they can find. Your statistics would say that enhance was a top tier spec all of DF just cause the enhance playerbase is so small

34

Obligatory representation=/= strength.

Burst is currently fine, and I rather not get unnecessary buffs that just leads to degenerate play to get one shot combo off again.

35

That’s not how statistics like representation works

36

It’s funny to see him go off on things he doesn’t understand tho.

37

I mentioned that in my first post, after the analysis. :slight_smile:

Are you assuming there is not? Skilled players love to play Enha and unskilled pick Monks?

Depends. Despite generally high activity and popularity of a class, the lack of representation at higher ratings indicates which classes are having a tough time.

Therefore, it is possible to make limited statements about a very high representation of a class at high ratings – especially if it is typically a less played class.

My intention was never to pinpoint exactly how strong each class is, but rather to highlight which classes currently need a bit more love from the developers and which ones could use a bit less.

And you have a degree in mathematics that qualifies you to make that judgment?

And I can guarantee you that I understand far more about this than you do. You don’t like it because it contradicts your personal view, but that’s why I’m making an objective assessment of the table.

And what exactly contradicts the presentation? Which class, in your opinion, is in a completely wrong place based on the analysis?

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38

Yes, high level players love to fotm

39

Stats aren’t objective and neither is your analysis :joy:

40

So you are saying, Enha is fotm? I thought its only 3 players!

Are you a Donald Trump supporter?