Cultural Appropriation

Lore Story Forum
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So, I was confronted the other day for one of my characters being, as they put it, a “Gross, racist caricature”.

Now this character is a human Paladin from Kul Tiras, her backstory is she is a surviving crew member of the fleet that accompanied Daelin Proudmoore to Kalimdor. Fleet was sunk, she washed up on shore, realized she was stranded, and fled into the wilds to eventually wind up in Tanaris/Uldum to become a Wastewanderer.

The main inspiration for the character are Barbary Pirates with a little bit of Egyptian folklore and Mythology. Now, I am not really looking for any validation here, instead I am using this experience to propose a question that is in alinement with another thread. The Unfortunate Racist implication of Human Exceptionalism.

What are some of your opinions regarding using real-world cultures as man influences for characters and races in Warcraft? Is it problematic that Trolls, for instance, are essentially caricatures of African/Caribbean/Indigenous Meso/South-American cultures? Same thing extended to Tauren and First Nations peoples? What about Vrykul and Nordic/Scandinavian cultures? And so on, you get the point.

Drawing inspiration from real world cultures is something Blizzard does a lot, which is why I thought it interesting someone playing such a game would call me out for doing it as well.

Is this appropriation of cultures in the design of these fantasy races problematic? If so, why? Does Blizzard draw from that influence in a respectable way? or is there something you rather see them do instead?

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It doesn’t matter. No matter how much you parse it back, someone will find something to cringe over. Are some of Blizzard’s cultures a bit on the nose? Yeah, sure, maybe. But just about everything is built from blocks of stories that came before.

Do what you want. Set your own standard. Are there lines you shouldn’t cross? Oh yeah. Definitely. But, while I never saw your character in action and can’t really judge, given the level of concern you’re showing about it, dollars to donuts you were nowhere near any of them.

TLDR? If someone tried to shame me like that, I’d reply “Piss off you hypocritical racist”, and block them. Because screw 'em.

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A lot of fantasy is coded in one way or another. I think the consumer of it has to ask themselves what the intention behind it is.

And I just don’t think the designers intended to say that Afro-Caribbeans are hunched inhuman monstrosities with the Darkspear.

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I don’t see it as a problem inherently. Its a little hard to come up with lore from nothing than use something from real life as a ground work. I think it depends though on how it is weaved into the race itself. If its a indirect jab at a real life race then it can be a problem though.

I think they do pretty well with it, take for example Trolls. They’re clearly based on Haitian voodooism, but I don’t see anything disrespectful pulled with them.

Stereotypes are something to keep in mind as well. Some are pretty harmless and its the first thing we think of when we hear about X or Y. Now, this also depends on which stereotypes they’re pulling as well.

I’m starting to ramble, but as far as your character goes I see nothing wrong with it, and if someone is throwing a fit over it, then just nod your head ok and walk away. You can’t please everyone.

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Apologies for getting all academic on this, but it’s relevant: David Hume posited that humans aren’t really capable of conceiving of truly new ideas - that our fantasies (e.g. centaurs) are just taking real things we’ve experienced (man, horse) and rearranging them.

Applying this to fantasy cultures, it’s debatable whether we can just come up with truly new ideas there, ex nihilo. I’m not saying Hume is right, but I do think it’s at the very least, a real challenge, and most fantasy cultures I’ve seen are essentially centaurs - that is, borrowing a little of this and a little of that from real cultures.

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I tried to hear them out. Perhaps they are associated with the culture present. Maybe there was something I overlooked, but that didn’t seem to be the case. They saw a tanned skin human wearing a hood and carrying a scimitar and made assumptions. It is as I said, the character is based on more historical influences than cultural ones. Though, I do understand how those can overlap.

I wasn’t super bothered by it, I was more intrigued. If they have such a problem with the appropriation of real-world cultures, then why do they play WoW? A game that does that left and right.

No, I do not think so either. Of course, the Vrykul all sounding like the Swedish Chef from the Muppets did leave a lot to be desired lol.

That is kind of a thought I had as well… If drawing inspiration from real world cultures is racist, then is fiction somewhat destined to be a super bland, blank slate?

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When I try to determine if something is wrong or right, I try to look at the harm it causes to others. Without knowing more, I can’t say for certain that your portrayal of a Kul Tiran character as a North African pirate and potentially slaver and raider, is harmful, but I sincerely doubt it. For one, just picking such an under represented cultural region means you’ve probably put enough thought into it that you’re not perpetuating negative stereotypes and are separating your portrayal enough from the real world that any parallel’s drawn are on them.

I’m going to say no. If you want to tell me the Bill Pullman classic The Serpent and the Rainbow perpetuates negative stereotypes about Afro-carribbean culture, I can understand having that discussion. The portrayal of anything in WoW is so over the top that no person even adjacent to reasonable would draw any conclusions about any cultures that have been borrowed from.

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If it’s problematic than literally all of fantasy is problematic because I don’t know a single fantasy world that is 100% made up and not based on real world cultures in some way.

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My stance has always been that it matters in the context that it is done.

Tauren and the first nations? Yeah, they gotta revist that hard taking, at the most obvious that all can understand, tipis from the plains, totems from the NW, and long houses from the east and throwing them all together in one, monolithic, representation of a diverse peoples.

Zandalari and Mesoamerica? I think they did a great job as the Zandalari as a stand alone people. Terrible in the related story, but that’s a different can of worms. They’re strong, regal, powerful, but also have character and flaws. They’re humanized rather than stereotyped.

If you take a human approach first, it usually works. If you take a purely aesthetic approach, then you run into problems.

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Sometimes.

When I say “French person,” then if you don’t have a lot of experience with the French, you may have a mental picture of a dude in a beret–even though most French people have much better fashion sense (and half of them are chicks). Short-hand in media is a big part of where that stereotype came from.

Short-hand is part of how fiction operates, but on the other hand Birth of Nation’s caricature of African Americans as latent rapists did a lot to galvanize the real life K K K. Harmful short-hand is harmful.

Whether cultural short-hand hurts anyone is something you can only evaluate on a case-by-case basis; there isn’t some general formula.

Does Blizzard draw from that influence in a respectable way?

The main complaint I’ve heard is that Blizzard frames white, Christian-coded dudes as the heroes who have to civilize the world (especially re trolls), while the less-western characters tend to be “savages” like Garrosh who have to “learn honor” or be killed by the white saviors. I can see where they’re coming from.

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Often, it’s not the concept that’s wrong, but the implementation.

Not too long ago, there was a trend on WRA (and maybe Moon Guard? Idk) of creating “Tanari”, which were at the time a made up race of humans that were native to Kalimdor who were nomadic wanderers. That in itself isn’t too bad, but the way they did it was making them exotic hypersexualized harem bellydancers and savage slavers whose only point was how different they were from established lore humans.

It felt cheap and one dimensional, and yeah, was pretty gross. The person you were talking to might have been having flashbacks to those Tanari RPers and kind of kneejerked into associating you with them.

As long as you handle being a wastewanderer from Tanaris respectfully, then I don’t see a problem with it. It’d be really interesting to see how your character reconciles their birth culture with one they’ve adopted to survive.

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I find it difficult to care when someone accuses me of being racist tbh.

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As long as your character isn’t a Tanari you’re fine.

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That…what a weird combo of things to go with. Nothing relieves a hard day in the life of slave owner like belly dancing.

As for the cultural appropriation thing it’s silly. Every fantasy culture ever made has drawn inspiration from something in the real world, it’s not like they’re using it as a fashion statement which I believe is the main criticism levelled at people in regards to cultural appropriation.

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This is an interesting distinction and perhaps something I agree with. Though, to challenge it a little bit, is this applicable to players as it is to Blizzard?

My Wastewander, for example, is a Kul Tiran. She has adapted to a different climate and terrain, and I suspect exposure to Farraki Trolls and Tol’vir has influences aspects of her worldview. Yet, ultimately, she is Kul Tiran, and to describe her plainly, probably has cultural perspectives that you would expect from a Kul Tiran Pirate of the South Seas.

I mean, that is what a wastewanderer is. I have completely adhered to the pre-established lore. There really is no explicit North African / Middle Eastern culture attributed to humans aside from Wastewanders, who in the lore are said to be mostly marooned pirates from elsewhere. Would you say Wastewanders being humans from the EK who only have a vague middle eastern/North African theme for aesthetic purposes is an issue? And does that extend to the people who choose to RP as one?

If so, does that also apply to people who RP as Tauren? As you mentioned, need to be revisited.

Makes sense, especially if it is a rather on-the-nose jab. Though, Blizzard somewhat established this short-hand, and I think there is an interesting question to be asked here:

Moon Guard had the Tanari trend for a little bit. Some of them were kind of generic, vaguely middle eastern caricatures, some of them were okay. That trend kind of started with Uldum, where in some ruins, we find human ghosts dressed in robes, headwraps, and carrying scimitars. They didn’t seem to be wastewanderer spirits, but rather ancient guardians of the temple, which is mostly how I think the trend was justified.

However, we have not seen any of these sorts of humans living. So if they -did- exist, I am not sure if there are any left, or perhaps they were never living to begin with. So I went with the marooned pirate rout, as that was explicit in the lore.

But as I mentioned already, the Wasterwanders being a purely aesthetic theme for displaced EK humans could be seen in a couple ways. Some might take offense, or perhaps they are far enough removed enough from the actual culture to not be a problem.

I think with the assumption that maybe Wasterwanders are a bit of an offensive short-hand, paired with the lore on the books that say they are mostly made up of marooned pirates, and thus criminals or likely people with fairly unfavorable qualities, I feel suddenly it is a difficult thing to navigate just purely based on what Blizzard has given us to work with.

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Unless, presumably, you were crossing those lines to which you alluded?

Racial stereotypes are tricky - they can add flavour, but it is so easy to wind up with overgeneralizations that are cringey at best and offensive at worst. You think you’re being funny, but everyone else sees Jar Jar Binks, for example.

I think if you use broad themes without getting too specific in terms of language or iconography, you’re probably okay. I do think Blizzard sometimes crosses this line. I think both the Trolls and Tauren are problematic, and their pygmies are outright offensive.

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Liking an aesthetic is fine. Loading that aesthetic with half baked harmful stereotypes because you saw “brown people” and thought “HMMMMM BUT HOW DOES THIS FIT” is something entirely different, which is what the Tanari RPers did and why they’re pretty reviled.

I like your approach. RPing them as a marooned pirate who adapted to the environment isn’t the same as RPing them as a goofy stereotype of exotic brown person. I’m curious how your character’s progression goes when they’re actually able to leave the desert. Do they return to Kul’Tiras with a bunch of cool stories and reintegrate to that society (with varying degrees of success, depending on how long they were marooned)? Do they take one look at Kul’Tiras, decide that it’s not for them anymore, and go back to wastewandering? There’s lots of potential here.

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That is the complaint I’ve seen levied at the Trolls. Often by people who don’t play the game or at least the Trolls. Because of course if you give them a chance the Darkspear are pretty badass. And the Zandalari are on a whole other level. They’re the most imperial and opulent feeling faction in game.

Blizz using different cultures to paint the non-human races is why the humans are so plain toast in my opinion. They mostly speak in American Broadcast accents as bland as their architecture. That’s why the Kul Tirans strike me as a breath of fresh, sea salty air. They’ve that cockney dock worker vibe that makes them feel like actual people. Stormwind always seemed a little too Disney World for me. Pretty default fantasy castle stuff.

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People will complain about anything nowadays. It’s to the point of ridiculous.

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People have been complaining about other people complaining for as long as there has been recorded language (and probably long before that). Seriously - go back to the drama of the Ancient Greeks, for example, and you’ll find that one of their recurring themes is “kids these days…”

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