Tuning hasn’t happened yet, so this is all a campfire chat at this point.
As it stands I see two builds emerging. One that uses Holy Blade, Holy Flames, Templar Strikes, and specs for Herald. The other using improved BoJ, Blade of Vengeance, CSAA, and specs for Templar. Hopefully the balance is close enough that people can choose the one they prefer.
Personally, in any game I am always drawn to classes that mix magic with weapon strikes. In WoW that leads me to Ret, Enhancement, and Frost DK. If I am being totally honest I’m hoping that TS ends up being the go-to. IMO Ret is starting to feel a little too casterish and I think it would help the spec to lean into a weapon strike.
?? im sorry but you dont swap builds for templar or herald, its ts, holy flames and holy blade/improved boj. csaa and bov are simply to weak to compare to ts and holyflame.
according to early sims and testin from some of the best ret players, including myself
Synergies between all of those. Herald leans into dots and finishers which aligns with Holy Blade and Holy Flames. Holy Blade would likely lead to some open GCDs which makes room for Templar Strikes which in turn leans into Herald’s dot focus.
This all synergizes with Burn to Ashes as well (which I could see Templar not taking). I also kinda see the Templar build favoring haste while the Herald build avoids it.
Full disclosure- I have not done any alpha/beta testing and this is all just brainstorming.
Balancing hasn’t been finalized and sims will constantly be updated. I’m just thinking out loud about talent synergies and am in no way telling anybody how to play. I enjoy theorycrafting and it will be interesting to see how things shake down when balancing is finished.
I wasn’t refering to zealot’s ferver getting nerfed (which it could, but that is besides the point) i was refering to cssa hp per strike getting nerfed. They could nerf it to 3-4 strikes for 1 hp to generate. In return, they may want to up it’s damage a bit.
How is not letting us not use our execute skill like candy unrealistic? It’s never intended to be used for more then a small percentage of our rotation. If we have wings for more then 45% of the time, then we have too much access to a skill that is meant to be an execute.
??? that completely kills the talent in general? especially when zeal is right there as a non invasive tuning nob
its unrealistic cause HOW was like this for decade, changing it so utterly and completely is just as unrealistic of them scrapping the new talent radiant glory. if they wanted to do that, they would have done it way earlier in the beta cycle
Zeal don’t just effects cssa, it effects ordinary Auto attacks for those who don’t talent into cssa. It also effects BoJ procs from art of war. That knob will harm more then just cssa users.
The problem the first time before the 2 strike per hp rule is that cssa produced too much HP, as such if left alone it will be the problem again.
You mean around the time of the leagion i think.
But sorry, it’s not unrealistic. Wrath/crusade was a splended CD without the access to HoW. Just like it wasn’t unrealistic that blizz turned ret into a psuedo ranged spec, which theu will punish ret’s that abuse the extra range for no reason (we should never do more then 70% of our damage at range)
two charge boj needs to go and radiant glory needs to be removed I agree.
Either way, in pvp where I spent all my time none of those are gonna be of use so Id love to use TS without having to worry about handicapping myself just like s2,s3.
crusader reprieve being gone also helps TS a bit in pvp compared to csaa, that gave us just free healing (although very low overall but it was something).
IF radiant glory gets nerfed into oblivion or removed, then hp generation goes down a lot. zealots fervor needs to be removed or nerfed heavily because it feeds too much into art of war boj resets. THe spec is not much different from before and I am 100% sure old cs or TS have a place in the game and the rotation. Not just right now with how overloaded everything else is .
Thanks for the “feedback” ill direct you to someone who gives a damn.
Oh wait, there’s no one. No one cares.
Nice try though.
Honestly, it’s amazing that ret still feels relatively decent to play despite the slew of garbage tier feedback i have seen, specifically from the paladin community, you guys are something else.
i honestly dont know how we went from “Ts is so oppressively overpowered” to “csaa hopo generation is a issue” when hopo in general is so numerous and spenders so pitifully weak it makes hopo a non resource to begin with
lenegis your the last person to comment about “whats good for the spec” eve ntho removing two charges of boj is bad for the spec. you shouldnt be judging others
I agree that it shouldn’t necessarily be optimal, but especially for a class which is entirely cooldown based (we don’t have anything we can really spam) it should be a tradeoff against a powerful utility option instead, so that choosing it neither increases nor decreases your overall output, but it simplifies the rotation for players who can’t manage tracking eight buffs, two procs, three cooldowns, their trinket and the phase of the moon, then trying to snapshot all of that so they don’t get left 20% behind on the charts.
Good players will still overall turn out better numbers AND they will get rewarded with more utility options, less good players will still turn out good enough numbers without getting lost halfway, screwing up a rotation completely and ending up playing with the tanks on Recount.
Especially with alt-centric choices being made. I can develop the muscle memory to play my ret paladin at top quality pretty well, but jump over to my fire mage and I’m all over the shop, then jump to my Aff lock and its a different world again. I’d take more talent choices to simplify their rotations to burn through non-bleeding edge content and remain competitive and leave the heavy utility work to my main on prog content.
Why?
They increased the baseline duration of Expurg which means you don’t need 2 charges to keep it up and the DF tier set that encourages taking 2 charges of it is also leaving.
HoW in TWW is soo accessible with the new talents that it will mostly always be available and the new mechanic of Divine Hammer will also drastically reduce the CD of builders.
Granted it might not be played but all points toward not needing 2 charges of it.
Idk that it warrants simply removing it without adding something other in turn but clearly the rest of the kit doesn’t requires it to have 2 charges.
Shower thought. What if Templar SlashTemplar Strikes reduced the cost of your next Holy Power spender rather than generating Holy Power? Then perhaps it wouldn’t feel so bad to press over a spender when you are capped on Holy Power.
Ummm, wouldn’t that essentially be the same thing??
I believe (I could be wrong) that’s the very reason why they gave us a 5 second interval between Templar Strike and Slash. If Strike gives you the HoPo you need, you can spend that HoPo and then continue with Slash, thus not wasting any HoPo.
I hope Crusading Strikes remains viable. I got too used to not having to press the extra button. It also reminds me a bit of classic paladin where swing timer mattered.
