Crowd Control in Battleground PvP

I understand that Crowd Control mechanics across classes are designed and balanced primarily around Arena. I’m sure it works well there. I wouldn’t know though because I don’t play arena, I hate it actually.

What I do play a lot of are honor battlegrounds. The amount of CC in a battleground is overwhelming to the point that they are almost unplayable. More often than not whoever the target ends up being is completely incapacitated, standing there helpless, watching their health go from 100% - 0%. Sometimes over the course of 15 seconds even. Trinkets are useless, pop it and you’re CCd again immediately. This is not fun. It’s maddening. I don’t mind getting killed because a player or even group of players is better than me or the situation doesn’t favor me. What I do mind is having my character turned off whenever I’m targeted by more than one person. Cut the CC durations in BGs to 25%? Implement a system of diminishing returns on the stunned player that progressively reduces the durations per application and initiates a cooldown timer for when the diminishing returns effect expires? I dunno …

Something needs to change, now.

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For many years I would have liked to see hard CC (basically stuns, not removeable via dispell etc) to break after a certain health percentage is lost. It’s fine to stun someone so they can’t take action but to just nuke them from orbit makes it kinda op. Some pressure is fine but not complete annihilation.

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I think that this is basically wrong especially in battlegrounds and im gonna try to explain it. If im sitting at lets say LM in AB and its a teamfight at the start of a game and I am basically the most focus class of a healer and all of the enemy players focus me to kill me with Cc. I only essentially get Cc’D for a long time once and then a very short time after due to Dimnishing Returns plus PvP trinket. Lets say all 10 players perfectly lap every separate DR CC on me I would still have trinket and defensives to use .If I get Cc’D by one type of CC lets say a super short one like druid Bash and trinket that short stun I am basically openning myself up to be killed unless I use a major defensive in that tiny time outside of that CC. A good player will not trinket a short CC unless the entire team is running to them or they have defensives from another player. A good enemy team will not let a CC target get gaps to allow defensives. I think this is a big part people usually get wrong and die unnecessarily easy DR will always save someone from being over Cc’d but a PvP freedom trinket will always save them from dying.

What generally happens is someone is out of position as a healer or a melee DPS or even a caster like mage blinking into the enemy team and will recieve punishment in the form of a CC to secure a kill. That player can either recognise they are in a bad spot and use trinket plus defensive and maybe live depending on how many people are attacking them or they can recognize that iceblocking near 10 warriors is probably not worth it.

The general counter play to being CC’d is to give answers correctly. If you are sitting a base and you trinket sap alone you are asking for a bad time. Even sitting a base alone with 5 rogues in stealth they can only seriously CC me once and I can give answers every other time to survive.

Popping a trinket correctly to give yourself time to react is probably the biggest advantage to using a PvP trinket in the game and using it incorrectly is pretty much the only time you are going to end up dying.

Two people in with seperate CCs are generally going to beat someone if they coordinate CC perfectly ONLY if the other player has nothing to counter play with. Dying in a stun does happen but thats generally because blizzard is against fixing absurd damage modifications in extreme cases but generally doesnt happen.

Its pretty great currently and while an idea has been putting all CC on the same DR in other games and at first look would be really boring especially for a DPS fighting a Healer 1v1.

This is why we have PvP trinkets.

So basically in summation CC is fine, not perfect but good enough to work well

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The CC is out of control. I don’t know about high level rated battlegrounds, but in epic battlegrounds it really, really needs to change. So often I get 4~6s CC from several classes in a row, now more than ever with Dracthyr. So many times where I manage to fight off several others, along comes a random other class that CCs me for 4~6s with something I didn’t have a DR against, and I’m dead. This is extremely annoying to deal with as melee, even if you have the CC duration reduction trinket.

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Wrong trinket to be using in epic Bgs. Its basically just saying please kill me when you run into melee range with zero outs. I think epic Bgs is a weird place to complain about CC when its most notoriously never a 1v1 fight and usually small zergfests and point defenses. If you are generally dying in a single stun its usually a gameplay issue or a unfixed modifier by blizzard.

I think WorldPvP has done a good job of explaining the difference between players who have an understanding of these advanced mechanics and climb the ladder compared to those who don’t. Especially in Rated Battleground PvP you’re expecting your teammates to peel for you outside of your own CD windows. If you listen to any decent RBG team you hear people call out when something is up, when they have nothing, etc for their team to know when to trade cooldowns as well. Granted YOLO BGs won’t have that sense of team so you’re more dependent on keeping yourself alive, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s broken since you can time your trinket, defensives, etc accordingly to counter.

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You really can’t though, that’s the point. In BGs there are too many players with too many separate DR timers. It’s mostly just chain stuns. Participation is RBGs is next to nothing so all this coordinated peeling you’re talking about is mostly in arena and what little of it there is in honor BGs is groups of 5 people coordinating against individual solo queuers… A party of glads ROFLstomping new players, amatures, casuals and solo players is a one sided positive experience that is just made worse by being chained stunned. If having an opponent stunlocked is the only way someone can play then that in itself is a problem.

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This is the only trinket that makes sense in mass PvP. I’ve played with the trinket to remove CC for a while, but there are a dozen different CC’s, and you get instantly re-cc’d by anything random flying your way. There’s so much going on that if you ever get caught too close to a group, you have 3 stuns on you instantly. There’s no coordination required because there are just that many people with different CCs.

Epic Battlegrounds are not about 1v1, but constant team fights. As a melee you’re constantly CC’d, and there’s no counter other than playing ranged.

Then you don’t understand the problem. There’s so much CC… Any choke points has at least several AoE spamming classes, stacking chills that freeze you, unbreakable fears that make you run into the enemy zerg, mortal coils, AoE stuns, AoE roots etc… There’s no counter as a melee and there’s no counter with trinkets.

The only way the on-use cc removal could possibly work, is by giving a few seconds of immunity.

It’s not a single stun, it’s a bunch of single stuns from different people and different classes that you don’t have duration reduction against.

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Are you really expecting to get something accomplished by running into the entire team alone? Like I said its a gameplay issue if your putting yourself in a position to be stunned multiple times without being able to account for it. If you want to run the reduction trinket and get trained the freedom trinket is ur only solution especially as a DH if you cant trinket and felrush or vengeful retreat thats not on blizzard. Overlapping CC on you would only be effective if you trinketed badly locking you down to die its a missplay no matter how blizzard does the CC

I don’t know how many epic battlegrounds you’ve played, it doesn’t sound like that many. Your hypothetical scenarios do not hold up as such.

I dont think I can explain it any easier.

You explained it to me like I get an immunity from using the trinket, and that’s not the case. In any fight you just get instantly re-cc’d by something random, not even having the time to use fel rush or vengeful retreat to get out.

Not to mention that the cooldown is incredibly long. This trinket is made for arena gameplay, not mass PvP.

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Not sure where you think thats being said but using a defensive or even a 100% damage negation like netherwalk would work. Again its on how the player reacts. Trinket helps you gain a gap to react. Blizzard shouldnt be required to help you gain an immunity for not making the correct play especially if you dont use any defensives or react at all. If you are getting overlapped with CC the only thing that would save you is a PvP trinket and pressing a defensive or another ability like Blur, Darkness, Netherwalk, and vengeful retreat or fel rush. If your dying but also not using anything its pretty much on you

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Reminder, I’m talking about ebgs, not arena :wink:

Yeah its still the same trinket they are not different. Rated bgs, arena, solo shuffle and epic bgs all have the same idea you trinket and pop defensives or you die its all basic rock paper scissors

Okay now read back to what I said. You pop the trinket and before you can use any of those spells, you’re already cc’d again. I literally can’t use my spells because CC is instantly re-applied.

if your too slow to use a defensive its a personal issue unfortunately

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Ah yes, a 20ms window despite having spell queue is just me being too slow, gotcha.

Maybe you should try playing melee in ebgs instead of backseat commenting :slight_smile:

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