Crit Auras and Raid bosses

According to [Bug] Berserker Stance , crit auras have some amount of suppression against +3 level mobs that is separate from the normal crit suppression. I’m assuming this applies to LotP and moonkin aura along with bersker stance (I’m unsure of others).
If that is the case, will there even be a point to have moonkin aura/LotP in raid settings? Are trash mobs and dungeons enough reason to spec into them? Am I reading into this wrong and it doesn’t affect those? Is more testing needed?

It’s hard to say. Blizzard said they wouldn’t tell us how it works. And we only have until tomorrow to find out, so…

More testing is definitely needed.

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The +3 level mobs calculate how you hit them slightly differently.

At that point it comes down to the +hit you have and your weapon skills to change how that plays out. If you have enough +hit/weapon skill it should off-set that however it wont be fully testable until we can get L60 with +hit/crit gear and other things.

As far as the “is it worth it?”

its always worth it to add %'s of crit to your raid with that and any DPS increase you didnt have before is an increase overall.

So, use them. Keep them… However the likelihood of finding somebody to allow you to be OOMKIN early on is probably very low because of their massive mana issues in classic. They hit like trucks, but go oom faster than you can blink

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It shouldn’t matter. Let’s say 20% of all crit is removed against lvl63 bosses then all that means is that the relative value of a 3% aura still remains the same even if it’s only applying 2.4% crit.

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I dont know why, but I love that even after all these years we dont ‘know’ everything lol.

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It doesn’t seem like it’s that simple though. Auras have their own suppression so it seems like at least 2% or more of that crit, just from the aura is being suppressed. Is a 1% or less crit chance justifiable to keep when there may be other talents you could switch out for? Would it be better to have moonkins with the healer groups because heals won’t face the same penalty?

It’s something the theorycrafting community really needs to invest some time looking into.

The problem is that in order to find out you’d have to carefully control all the variables and test things out. This isn’t too bad in a 5 man group but when you have 40 people in a raid instance that everyone just wants to down the boss and get the loot? Nearly impossible to experiment.

Couple this in with the fact that they made these formulas non-linear at the ends. So, for most levels you have a pretty simple formula but at the low and high levels it deviates. This doesn’t matter too much on the low end since you level past it quickly but on the top end it affects a lot of the game. You can make decent predictions in the middle levels but it’s very muddy on raid bosses.

This game is casual enough to where you can meet all DPS thresholds with a raid comprised completely of hunters. You don’t need to minmax, so the point to bringing the moonkin/LoTP aura in a raid setting would be riding on if the player wasn’t being obnoxious.

Is there a point to having a full 1% of crit to offset the suppression and get above it so that Crit can work?

Hell yeah.

We don’t know yet if it will net at 1% crit though. The numbers from the testing they did could mean that the aura based crit is suppressed by 3% or more thus meaning the aura is completely negated.

The suppression they are seeing is likely what Lchnssmnstr is referring to. There’s a single hit table that is dynamic based on the mob’s level compared to yours and your stats. There are three primary components (others like parry are also applicable but left out to simplify things here) in play: chance to miss, chance to crit, and normal hits. The chance to miss is always face value. So if you have a 10% chance to miss after mob level and your hit stat is taken into account, you ALWAYS have a 10% chance to miss.

This means there are only 90 slots left on the table to be shared by your crit chance and normal hits. This means that if you have a base chance to crit of 10%, it gets “suppressed” to fit in the table. In actuality you have an effective chance to crit of 10*90/100=9% chance to crit. Leaving you with a 81% chance to normal hit.

This is why hit gear is almost always the best choice up to cap for nearly all specs. It is actually more than 1% dps increase because it reduces the suppression effect on your crit %.

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Okay, If i’m understanding the theorycrafting discords correctly there are 2 crit suppressions.

  • You have a base 3% reduced chance to crit on raid bosses.
  • In addition to that, there’s a reduced chance to crit that scales with the amount of crit you have from “auras” (the game considers crit auras to be things like crit % on gear, food, talents, and other buffs). This second suppression (judging from the math that’s been currently done) reduces your amount to crit by 1/3 of whatever your aura based crit is (pretty much anything that’s not agility based crit).

So it sounds like the more crit you get, the more it gets reduced so you want to stack as much crit as possible just to make up for it.

This will be solved very quickly once testers can go into actual raids and can parse data.

Probably, but i still think its neat for such an old game thats had millions of eyes on it and literal decades of /played.

It seems flat and not % based. We’ll need testing to be sure.

It seems though that unless you have rallying cry of the dragonslayer/leader of the pack/etc that zerker stance’s crit bonus is useless against raid bosses. Maybe battle stance is better due to overpower being available in that case?

Potentially until you can build a lot of crit to overcome the suppression.
As for how much it reduces, testers are saying it’s not a flat amount. Someone tested it and that have a <2% penalty at low crit versus a 3% penalty at higher crit.