The 6-8 week wait for the creation catalyst is a downright awful move by blizzard. Raids are already pushed as a frontloaded way to gear higher ilvls in heroic and mythic than both PvP and PvE. Players who only do Mythic+ or PvP are getting set behind in order to prop up raiding which is absolutely in no way a fun interaction. The 5-10% buff from 4 piece will be enough to push those who are competing in the high end of either portion of the game behind those that also raid.
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While i agree that the timegate on unlocking catalyst is ultra lame, at least the tier set powers are a fraction of what they were in S3
I’d rather everyone be able to get tier at the same time, but having to choose between S3 or this it’s way more manageable
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I agree, so tired of tier after tier being forced to raid as someone who only wants to play m+. People shouldn’t be at a disadvantage in m+ because they don’t raid when it’s a completely separate mode and skill set.
I unsubbed when domination shards were out and only available in raid. I’ll have no problem unsubbing again if I feel I’m at a disadvantage in power because I don’t raid.
M+ players already need to invest a lot of time and practice into the game to stay competitive, it’s not realistic to be expected to add another 12-15+ hours a week raiding just to stay relevant in a completely separate mode
No its not. It stops people from avoiding raiding for BIS gear. Raiding has nothing left for people who want gear, M+ dominated that area. Tier is the only thing making people wanna raid for those who don’t enjoy it.
if your serious about raiding, you have to run M+ to keep up with prog to make it easier and in the BFA nazjatar patch, when essences unlocked, BIS essences for many were locked behind RATE PVP…utterly unfair and BS and I’m glad they moved away from that mistake.
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Agree with the battlemaster here, it won’t be nearly as painful since the bonuses are not as good. Later on tho I have a feeling that will change.
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The silver lining is that the powers won’t be as powerful as they were in season three. Them giving such powerful sets out the gate is what created a lot of the issue with the long wait for the forge. At least this time it will be much more reasonable, although I still think they should release it sooner than they are.
Sounds like Blizzard should figure out why people don’t enjoy raiding these days and solve that problem, in the meanwhile there is nothing wrong with having the creation catalyst there from day 1 of raid opening, also they should bring back that vendor from season 4 that let us target 3 items of our choice that was GOOD game design.
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Its a video game. No one should be forced to do content they don’t want to do. WoW players constantly attempt to push a narrative of screwing up one persons content in order to prop another one up. Stop trying to prop up raids bad loot design by hurting the Mythic+ and PvP population.
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Raid participation would be way down, no. There are those of us who raid for the fun…and there are the ones who raid for gear and since the intruction of M+, raiding has been on a decline hence the M+ nerfs in DF.
And? Why should I be forced to do raiding when all I want to do is high Mythic+. Your chosen content doesn’t dictate the content everyone else will choose. There is zero reason all three forms of content i.e. PvP, Raiding, and M+ should require any of the others to be competitive, because in the end that is how you kill off a game.
That problem can easily be avoided by joining a raiding guild, participation wouldn’t matter at that point because there will always be enough people to fill raiding guilds for people who enjoy that activity.
You’re never going to convince me it’s good game design to force people into content they don’t want to do because the company who designs it refuses to face the reality of why participation in raids has been drastically falling these past few expansions.
If people don’t want to raid for its own sake they shouldn’t be bribed to do so. If that means it ends up servicing too few people to justify putting resources into, then oh well. The people will have spoken with their time. I enjoy raiding myself, but if there isn’t enough people who want to raid because they want to raid then either make raiding more appealing to more people or face reality.
Tier sets are Raid sets in the first place …
Always have been always will be.
What hinders you to simply raid to get them?
In the end I agree that the catalyst could unlock after 1 month instead. same with the Valor cap.
When they were only raid sets there was no Mythic+ in the game and PvP had its own sets and pieces of gear. What’s to stop you from raiding while I also get to enjoy the game in the content I enjoy?
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They were Raid sets until their abolishment in Legion/BfA…
Legion had M+ and everyone complained.
Now everyone has a chance to get the set regardless of raid or not.
Raid just has a first shot at them … as that’s where the sets originated.
Akshually, sets with bonuses turned up in Dungeons first. Checkmate, raider nerd.
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Yeah those where called Dungeon tier … 
Or T0.5
Full Tier sets came always from Raids
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You’re assigning labels to them. They were simply sets, and they started off lower than 0.5 too.
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It is not that I labeled them but Blizzard did …
And you are right it started with T0/Dungeon Set 1 which was upgradable into T0.5/Dungeon Set 2
And in TBC we got the T3.5/Dungeon Set 3
Legion was over 3 expansions ago; mythic+ was complained about due to the abundant grind for AP required from M+. There is a reason gearing continuously being nerfed on mythic+ and a new MORE interacted with e-sport has been born out of the Mythic+ scene.
Raiding should not give inherent advantage within M+ or PvP. As it stands for the first 6-8 weeks those that raid will be given a 5-10% advantage over those that do not for a major portion of the game which is pretty terrible design for an entertainment company.
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