IF I ever become a CE raider I will worry about it then.
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In the past, the problem was that there wasn’t perfect balance.
With the current dev team, the problem is that there is ZERO balance. Nor do they seem to even be trying.
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h ttps://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/23#aggregate=amount
If you cut out Shadow Priests as an outlier (yes, they done goofed on us a bit - we’re balanced in ST, but we go too nuts on fights with multi spread out targets… don’t worry, we’ll be the bottom/middle of the pack at best in 8.3 based on the current PTR), the difference between the 2nd best class and worst class is about 8% on average.
Most importantly, no spec performs so badly that they’d be laughed out of a raid in Mythic content, as long as they were performing to the standards the spec can.
Meanwhile, Mythic+, I feel like using your class or spec as an excuse as to why you can’t get groups is a copout. None so drastically underperform that the content is significantly harder because your there.
I’m sorry but… the balance just isn’t as bad as your trying to make it out to be.
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Class balance has been a big issue for me in past expansions, they really should do a better job of this.
IMO they need to do more frequent, small adjustments, not wait for some “distant in the future” major patch. Balancing needs to be far more dynamic.
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Sigh… you’re quoting the average damage across all bosses and then trying to claim that means something. I mean… I don’t even know where to begin, but I’ll try to explain the issue.
FIRST, you’re including the first 3 bosses, which are just Heroic-level bosses and shouldn’t be included, because they aren’t difficult and any comp (or any player, really) can do them.
SECOND, you aren’t looking at the bosses where DPS actually matters.
Go to that chart you linked, and change “All Bosses” to “Orgozoa”. What do you see? And before you say “well that’s a multi-dot fight”, IT’S NOT. Mythic Orgozoa is approached and executed as a SINGLE TARGET FIGHT. The Zoatroid damage all needs to be passive.
Now that same Orgozoa chart, and change “Damage” in the upper left to “Damage to bosses”.
What do you see? Still think the DPS spread is pretty even?
Now go to Queen’s Court. What do you see there?
You can’t look at a basic number, which includes wasted damage, irrelevant damage, and pad damage, and think it means anything. You need to look at the fights, what’s important on the fights, what matters on the fights, and go from there.
There’s a reason why everybody stacks exactly the same classes over and over again. There’s a reason everybody wants Mages, Shadows Priests, Rogues, they’re all way out of line.
Now go look at representation. Go look at Queen Azshara and, rather than look at the pretty graphic, go down to the table and look at the “parses” column on the right. That shows you how often these classes are being brought to the fights.
1,672 Fire Mages
597 Elemental Shamans
That’s almost 3-to-1.
Still think things are balanced?
Shall I keep going? I could do it all day. Things really ARE as bad as people say.
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So far if you look at the “movement/all classes” ability from all four covenants they all do the same thing really, it comes down to minor tweeks and aesthetics cause in the end its basically just a shroud/skip.
I’m sure the class specific ones will all pretty much work the same, very minor dps difference and min maxing will be for the 1% of world first folks.
I feel like a broken record though because we’ve gone over this many times already, so many covenant panic threads.
LOL… OK, that’s a bit of liberty you’re taking there, but we’ll go with it.
There’s fights where DPS doesn’t matter? Huh. DPS will be sad to hear that.
OK, I skimmed over the rest of this - it seems to me, the only thing you’d accept is near even damage on every single fight… the reason I look at “All Bosses” is because that’s what Blizzard has said they’re looking to do: they’re not trying to balance it so every class is equal on every fight, but they want situations where every class shines.
Once you nerf SPriest Multitarget into the ground, and nothing else changes too dramatically, the balance is looking pretty good, based on the overall numbers.
No. As somebody who’s run raid teams for 14 years, I want a reason to have an Elemental Shaman on the team instead of trying to just recruit another Mage. I want a reason to recruit a DK for the team instead of just recruiting another Rogue.
And Blizzard isn’t giving us reasons to do that. It’s the same classes, overpowered in the same ways, on all the fights, every raid tier.
And before you say “well that’s just your choice”, we HAVE an Elemental Shaman, and we HAVE a Frost DK, and we’d be much, much, much better off if they were another Mage and another Rogue instead. And they know it, and I know it, and everyone knows it. Except you, apparently, because you think everything is fine.
All you’re doing is showing that you don’t understand Mythic raiding, because that’s the opposite of what Blizzard has done. The best way to succeed is to have the same overpowered classes that everybody else always uses. Go look at the healing representation on Queen Azshara. NOT THE GRAPHIC. Go look at the number of parses, that’s what matters. And every boss is like that.
What is the reason to bring any other tank instead of a Brewmaster? There isn’t one.
What is the reason to bring an Elemental Shaman instead of a Mage, ever? There isn’t one.
What is the reason to bring a Resto Druid over a Holy Paladin or Disc Priest? There isn’t one.
The whole expansion has been like this, class balance hasn’t just been a joke, it’s been non-existant. And THAT’S why people have zero faith in Blizzard’s ability to make covenants anything other than a train wreck.
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Ah, everyone knows it - do they? Everyone but me?
Well, if that’s what I’m up against, how can I possibly compete. Pass my regards onto every other WoW player when you get a chance.
While you’re at it, tell them the Mythic fights where their DPS doesn’t matter - they’d be thrilled to know, I’m sure. 
Frankly, when your arguments have delved down to this much hyperbole, there’s really no point engaging with them. Good luck in your fight for balance.
You linked the logs, I told you what to look at in the logs, and you refuse to look at it. You won’t even look at your own data.
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I have looked at the data. There’s fights where classes overperform because that’s what they’re good at. That’s never going to change and I wouldn’t want it to.
When I push back on that, you tell me my analysis is wrong for reasons like “DPS doesn’t matter on certain fights…” or “those bosses dont count cause they’re too easy” and counter my arguments with what amounts to “Everyone disagrees with you”…
shrug
I mean, when thats essentially the crux of your argument, what’s left to say but nice talk bro?
It’s odd how weird you are about this. Basically every raid forever has had fights where dps didn’t matter. Why are you trying to pretend you think he is saying that dps do literally actually nothing… or do you actually think he has saying that?
When someone is saying dps doesn’t matter, they mean you could bring the worst dps class, with the worst dps player, pulling all together terrible numbers and the bosses still die. If there are no burst windows to push a phase or kill an add, no enrage timer including soft enrages, then dps doesn’t matter. Doing 1M dps as a raid or 100k dps would still result in the boss dying if the other mechanics are being observed.
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Because it doesn’t.
Overall damage on something like Za’qul doesn’t matter, because most of the raid /dances for the first minute of the fight and things like Phase 2 are meaningless because you want to push him at specific times, which might mean holding cooldowns, for example. The only thing that matters on Za’qul is the damage at specific points on specific targets during the fight. Azshara is the same way. Does Azshara damage matter in Phase 2 or 4? Sure. Is Azshara damage in Phase 3 important? Not nearly as important as add damage, no. Is add damage in Phase 2 important? No, it’s just padding.
The higher Mythic fights are complicated machines and you can’t just look at a damage meter and think that’s the be-all end-all. People bring Mages and Rogues and SPriests on all these fights because those classes are superior in every way, not just because they top the damage meter.
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Some of you are giving Blizz way too much credit.
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So we’re mad that there’s fights where you can bring any dps spec you want and down the boss? We need more fights where we have to say: “Your spec sucks here, so step out?”
I don’t mean to come off as condescending - I’m just very confused what you proponents of “sky is falling/worst balance ever patch 8.2” really want.
I don’t think he said it’s specific to 8.2. Raid balancing has been really bad since the end of MoP. Atleast in MoP you could bring lower dps for the raid cds - which blizzard promptly removed because they didnt want people to focus on raid cds. It’s only been getting worse, look at Tomb of Sargeras, look at the current raid representation. The tuning is REALLY bad and I think you might just be delusional if you can’t see it. I haven’t done mythic raiding in 3 years and I can see how bad things have gotten by the numbers alone.
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Could you please show me where I ever said that? Anywhere.
You’ve positioned this as a negative:
When someone is saying dps doesn’t matter, they mean you could bring the worst dps class, with the worst dps player, pulling all together terrible numbers and the bosses still die.
I’m assuming harmless hyperbole on “worst DPS player”, otherwise Mythic kills would be as popular as LFR kills… but if you’re not happy with people of any spec being able to down a boss, what would make you happy? … people of any spec not being able to?
Where am I losing the point you’re trying to make?
I miss it being as easy as changing your glyphs or respeccing your talents to deal with them. Finding the good talents and glyphs is part of the journey. It’s not even a bad thing necessarily that everyone uses the same talents/glyphs; imitation is how we use the monkey part of our brains to succeed.
Optimization is not fun when it comes to azerite traits, essences, etc. These things aren’t just a step back from MoP and earlier, they’re a step back from late Legion when legendaries had less RNG.
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Something you seem to be not understanding are many bosses have burn phases which have dps checks. If i’m not mistaken Azshara even on heroic difficulty has a LOT of dps checks throughout the phases. You’re arguing in bad faith with your fallacies though so I don’t think i’ll say anymore on this topic.