Meta and min-max culture in general is extremely toxic to any game but always gets swept under the rug despite it being like a parasite and infecting everything it touches. The argument of “,some people like to be the best they can” stops being an excuse when the mindset becomes detrimental to everyone else, and it always does since there’s a trickle down effect where people just parrot the folks who really may need to squeeze every bit of efficiency even though they personally do not, and then eventually even the lower levels parrot it because everyone else says it’s the only way.
Games have evolved for the worse to embrace rather than curb this destructive mentality.
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Games imo dont have the power to change that mentality because the community is just gonna make a new raider io, a new gearscrore, and new score to filter players.
So then it is up to the community, many are starting to realize the community mentality is itself is the problem, but stay passive.
Unless the mentality is fought head on when encountered by the people who understand the issue such as streamers and even players, this wont change, the mentality needs to be attacked instead of left on its own to influence the community.
But that would require for certain people to have a drive to improve things instead of being complacent and bending over to the status quo because it is “easier”
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I wish there was something Blizzard themselves could do since they’ve stated they don’t want that mindset
I do hope to stick with their guns and keep covenants extremely hard to switch back to.
That would be a blow to the min max community since many of them wont be able to maintain 4 of each class
Yes but it won’t fix the “must be X covenant” mentality which is worse. I’m honestly tired of the “best or nothing” mindset ruining everything it touches but constantly being defended
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Locking abilities and cosmetics behind a singular choice is what I take issue with. I’m currently in the boat where I will be unhappy with ANY choice I make.
I can either pick the covenant I like the aesthetics of and get an awful ability that I will never use OR I can pick the ability I want (mostly because it sounds interesting) and get awful aesthetics and story that I will hate.
Both options are bad. Both options make me want to skip SL and both options are, quite frankly, unnecessary and pointless annoyances that exist purely for the sake of it.
It is, was, and will continue to be a terrible idea until they decouple the abilities from the covenants and just add them to a talent row (or, better yet, delete them entirely.)
I shouldn’t have to try and find some middleground in a freaking video game–and this comes from someone who specializes in mediating for his entire friend group/guild.
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Another day, another Ralph thread.
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Hold on a moment. It ruins that element for YOU. The world doesn’t revolve around you. Free agency matters. And people shouting ‘meaningful consequence driven choices’ is translated to ‘excuse to add more time played gameplay elements.’ to shareholders.
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…This post is the most “extra chromosome” thing I’ve heard today. That’s saying a lot, since I’ve been PUGing M+ all day.
I was dealing about 70k overall dps in any given M+ runs until this Friday. I swapped my random garbage Corruptions out for pure Crit + Crit damage, and now I hold about 80k overall dps pretty solidly. That’s the difference between garbage setup and BiS setup.
Because my luck is garbage, I have slightly better gear for Sub rogue than I do for Sin. I also played Sub all throughout Legion, whereas Sin was something I picked up when I came back to the game 2 months ago. Yet, regardless of the encounter type, my Sin is ALWAYS 20k dps above my Sub. The Survival Hunter main in my guild, who’s been playing that spec for 8 years now, who could have been the global rank 3 parse on Mythic Shad if our healers didn’t let him die to Spit, also can’t play his spec in M+. His tank alt is legit 500 io score higher than his hunter main now. That’s the difference between a garbage spec and a FotM spec.
“Perform well” is a relative thing; I can still run my weekly +15 with Sub, and to people with pisslow ilvls, that’s “good performance” already. But, I know that if I just suck it up and play Sin, I can push a +20 with a solid team. So, as far as I’m concerned, my performance with Sub would be absolutely horrendous, and there’s no way in hell that spec is playable.
Also, “meaningful choices” are only fun until the meaningful choice system forces you to choose only one aspect of the game to succeed at. I just got done farming out 10000+ Echoes of Ny’alotha purely by spamming M+ keys, because my spec’s “meaningful choice” of AoE vs. single target forces me to prepare two completely different sets of gears + Corruptions. That grind was not enjoyable. I would much rather be able to have AoE for M+ and single target for raiding in a single set of gears.
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oh no! players demand performance in a competitive multiplayer game where performance matters!
the community is corrupt!!!
Covenant locking is the one thing that will crash shadowlands. plain and simple.
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You’re not pro RPG then.
Building rep with a faction and getting them to tell you all their secrets then expecting to just swap to another one without repeating the process is completely counter to the RPG elements of the game.
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Nah… it’ll be players that can’t do anything other than whine regardless of what they’re given.
That’ll be (sigh… again) what “crashes” shadowlands.
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Ever consider why they would whine? Maybe do away with all these stupid limitations and let people play?
why specifically remind them every time they do something, that they have chosen sub optimal choices and let them watch as someone else who choose the bis beat them solely because of it?
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Bring the player not the class was something the devs were pushing but to be real the community has never been that way.
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It’s never about bring the player, or bring the class.
It’s bring the performance.
Whatever player/class combination has the best performance, it gets taken.
And often times, class has a bigger impact on the performance than the player. cause blizz fails at balancing.
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They whine because they’re not capable of being happy.
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Twas ever thus, and not even perfect balance could change it - assuming ranged vs melee could ever be perfectly balanced.
You overestimate how much effort it takes to placate the playerbase . There are whine that didn’t matter. like petty little thing bout lore, and there are whine that do matter, like core game play mechanic.
Covenant is the latter.
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This. I mean, I’m watching it happen. There is so much to look forward to and there is so much in SL’s alpha that looks fantastic.
But covenant locking–the way they’ve set it up with player power tied to it–will tank SL. And they don’t seem to be listening.
I’m fairly casual. I raid heroic, not mythic, and the highest key I’ve completed (not timed, but it was fairly smooth) is a 16. I’m not an elite player…but my spec and my gear matter, even in the content I do. It matters even more the higher into content you go. BiS matters.
If all you play is world content and normal raids and keys under 11, you can go with whatever spec and whatever gear and whatever borrowed power system you like. You don’t have to have a rank 15 cloak and you don’t have to run visions or get the right corruptions, and you can slap any essence you like into your gear. You’ll be fine. And that is a perfectly valid way to play this game.
It’s not the ONLY valid way to play this game.
Those of us who want to play more challenging content HAVE to care–at least to a degree. Dismissing that as some kind of moral failing is rotten and self-serving and arrogant beyond belief. Badly done, Ralph.
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