How are we feeling about them. While Kyrian and Venthyr are the two covenants im considering for my paladins, I must say that Aura of the Seasons seems interesting, while Hammer of the Vanquisher is the one that mechanically and playstyle-wise seems to be the most fun.
Ashen Hallow, from the Venthyr, seems like a strong ability, providing massive damage and healing, yet the cooldown seems a bit steep, and as aside, Prot is the only spec that has any benefit from consecration outside the damage,
Divine Toll, to me, seems really weak. Its basically an AOE judgement, which might apply the debuff to multiple targets and provide holy power, is lacking in any real ability to provide a solid single target DPS buff or any utility. While not a terrible ability, it needs more to make it mechanically worthwhile.
Anyway, wanted to open a discussion amongst the Paladin community to see how we feel.
Divine Toll looks fantastic for both Prot and Holy specs, so I’m like 95% sure I’ll be rolling with this one. But yeah probably not thaat great for Ret. Something I haven’t looked into is if it gives the 5HP when you hit 5 targets only or you them regardless??, the latter would probably make it a bit more valuable for single target without changing the AOE part.
I don’t like Ashen Hallow and I feel it might be good in some situations but it’s going to be pretty awkward to use in many others: The cooldown seems way too long, then the radius is too large which might limit the areas where you can use it to not pull extra stuff, lasting one minute on the ground (and with such a large area) could also break or limit the group’s ability to CC, the initial 12s “burst” portion of it is split among all enemies so not really that great in AOE unless the enemies live for a long time.
I personally don’t like passive abilities like Aura of Summer and much rather take an active thing, as long as it’s not “required” I will be taking something else. Plus probably don’t wanna give up Devo Aura, specially as Holy.
Hammer of the Vanquisher doesn’t look very good nor fun, it’s basically giving some free single target in AOE scenarios or some free AOE in single target scenarios, it just doesn’t seem that interesting to me.
Probably going to play whatever sims the best and then be sad when they nerf it.
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Kyrian will be good for ret in dungeon, if raid don’t have aoe or cleave it will suck.
And yes it applies the judgement debuff on every target and gives a holy power for every target hit.
I don’t really remember but there is something about covenants upgrading their spell and one of them was making us stun all enemies. Which again will really help us to get into mythic+.
So far we have to wait and see what else the other covenant upgrades will offert. Season might be mandatory for hpal in raids.
Necrolord seems really powerful for pvp and I can’t wait to see its upgrades.
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This is actually one of my biggest worries about Shadowlands in general.
I’m 100% on board with the idea of Covenants presenting a significant choice, and I’m not super uptight about how performant each ability is.
However my dillema is that, I’m in a situation where I really want to take Venthyr. I want to be a vampire Paladin, I just want it thematically. I’m looking at maining Prot, and consecrate is already my favourite spell in the game, so the idea of getting a second, shadow consecrate is really enticing to me.
But I have a really hard time making that choice, because it just looks useless. Why is it a 4m cooldown!? Why does it have a cast time!? How am I supposed to use this while tanking? It just feels like literally every other covenant is better for every spec in every context. I don’t mind making a less optimal choice, or one that is useful in more niche situations. But the only niche I can think of here is if you’re 1v1ing an enemy for a minute, and not planning to move much. Even then, it sounds like most of the damage and all of the healing falls off after 12 seconds, and that isn’t even talking about the damage split.
The “best” thing about this ability is that it interacts with prot mastery (sorry I guess, Ret + holy?). Which is cool, and it means freeing up your rotation very slightly. So I guess it’s cool that it removes the need to cast my favourite spell for 25% of a fight, lol.
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Can’t wait to see it. I’ll prob go Necrolord if it’s the best for pvp + I really like the plate set
The Venthyr ability just got changed in the latest build, now you can cast Hammer of Wrath at all times within the spell area.
That sounds way more usable, especially for ret. It looks like it was also changed to, instead of split damage, just hit 1 random enemy in the area and heal 1 random ally in the area every 2 seconds. Which… Makes me wonder wtf they are trying to do with this spell.
This kind of turns it into a more Paladin-y version of the Warriors’ Condemn, and reinforces the idea that they want you to use this on single targets. But then why the f is this an enormous AoE? Why do we have this periodic tic that also grants us hammer? All these interactions feel so hamfisted and awkward.
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They possibly have no idea themselves.
Again this is a stationary effect, last 30seconds.
So you’ll be able to use 4 hammer of wrath for a 4min cooldown. Still seems out of place when wings already allow us to do this baseline. Find a better idea.
Aura of seasons ia being changed into blessings. But I have no idea how it works at all from the wording.
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All the Covenant abilities still look like complete garbage. Everything still seems too bland and not interesting. Aura of Seasons did raise my eyebrow a bit but other than that, not so much.
They really need to put a lot of focus on Ret/Covenant abilities and redo just about everything.
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I really hope Night Fae gets super reworked. It’s better now that it doesn’t potentially punish the Paladin for using Holy Power, but it’s still miles ahead of the other three in terms of usefulness, power, and utility. Despite it being party wide, so it will only effect you and four others, that is SO powerful for groups, even 20 person raid groups would benefit highly from having this aura over the other three abilities.
If Blizzard wants these abilities to even have the illusion of balance, abilities should not buff other players.
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As I said to plenty of others. They should MOVE away from the mentality of nerfing stuff when they seem good and bring the other Covenant abilities on-par with how Aura of Seasons of doing.
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I would have much rather had it instead of healing those within it that it would stack up a shield, which delays the application of damage for a given amount of time. Think something like stagger in monk tanking, as it would give abit of breathing room for healers to deal, and it being a larger areas means that you could jump into the area easier compared to something smaller. Also giving out a damage delaying shield might make tanking stationary in the field possible as the delay allows the healer to keep up better with incoming damage.
I disagree.
Ashen Hallow looks incredibly weak and redundant for what it does. It needs a complete redesign.
Hammer of the Vanquisher could have situational uses, but I would prefer it did holy or arcane damage instead of shadow (that’s not thematic for a pally).
As for Divine Toll…are you kidding me? That’s basically greater judgment and on a relatively short cooldown. Further that generates Holy Power. That’s a really useful ability. Further it’s use as a Prot Pally (if you off tank) is amazing. I am not sure if Holy’s consider 5 Holy Shocks useful but, as an arm-chair gamer on that one that seems good.
Divine Toll is both INSANELY thematic for a Paladin while also being useful in just about every area of the game. Solo. Dungeon. Raid. Hek even in PvP arenas and battlegrounds.
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I’m not sure how the upgrades work or if they operate in all content, but Divine Toll currently has an upgrade to make it an instant 30 yd aoe stun. That’s insane.
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If Divine Toll can pull rogues out of stealth, then I’ll be happy.
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That is how you get power creep. And right now is an excellent time to nerf because we aren’t losing anything because we never had it.
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I’m reluctant, but I agree.
However, I will say that with the recent changes, they should ensure other covenant abilities are as versatile as the others.
Balance is a huge issue. Especially considering if they don’t get it right they may buff or nerf these abilities while the game is live.