The one superpower Alliance has is to establish peace treaties between every expansion that the Horde is bound by blood to break and attack the Alliance in the most dishonest way possible.
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In other words you feel entitled to invade and murder the adults and it´s “heroic” cause we don´t kill the orphans and we just leave them there at the mercy of nature? -yes, that´s kinda what our characters do… the Murlocs and the other “pest” races are literally living on their meagre towns and WE are the a-holes that come looking for trouble; no wonder they attack us on sight if “we” (and by this I mean the fancy playable races with their fancy questgivers asking us to go bother them in the first place) do this on a regular basis.
MegaLUL. So much for the “hero” of the story.
Anything codded as "righteous homicidal defenser IS a “White Knight”… the very narrative excuses the violence used by them, period.
Dude, your rabid diatribe actually proves my point -cause guess what? YES, Sylvanas is yet another self insert / pet character in this game!!!
The difference between you and me is that I don´t use useless double standards to excuse 10th rate cancerous characters like Jaina, Thrall, Anduin or Baine because I “fancy” them. You do. And hilariously believe they are NOT the same trash Sylvanas became literary speaking.
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If you’re going to allude to me using a double standard, you should atleast point out what you’re claiming is wrong, because otherwise you’re just crying about not liking the game, as usual.
Jaina, Thrall, and Baine aren’t remotely close to what Anduin, and Sylvanas are. That trio actually have to vanish, and disappear from relevance to actually seem disconnected from the story. Anduin, and Sylvanas both manage to disconnect from any sense while being the driving forces lol
I thought white knighting is the whole NiceGuys routine where they think being a decent person means they deserve to get a kiss or two for their valiant efforts.
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Not unless we see the existence of a noble class seeking to undermine the crown.
I just don’t see Blizzard doing anything that intelligent.
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Think of it like a branching class change progression system where you start off as a Nice Guy but can diverge into either White Knight (upgrades to Simp) or Pick-Up Artist (which further branches off to MGTOW or Incel).
Is the White Knight a good tanking class?
Fairly certain most of the one I have killed did a lot more than that, like for example conduct raids on the surrounding lands, or kill people wandering the roads. I’d say that justifies a heavy handed approach.
In every narrative ever created, the Hero, if there is such a character, is justified in using violence. It’s not like we think Aragorn is a monster for killing orcs by the droves. Instead, he is quite heroic, simply because of how evil and awful the orcs are. It’s a staple of fantasy, for there to be monsters that can only be reasoned with by force. The “beast” races, the Murlocs, the Gnolls, the Centaur, are part of that group. That’s simply fantasy.
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look at how blizz handled us whenever they needed new vilains , but hey if you don’t mind some of your character being ruined and then be forced to kill them i guess its all good
me too…
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Who are the owners of those lands legally speaking? Better yet, is there any legal entity enforcing laws i WoW / Azeroth?
Cause me thinks that in the absence of a legal entity clearly enforcing territorial limits, then any race can probably determinate which territory belongs to them based upon the fulfillment of their basic necessities (food, security). So yes, ANYONE getting close to the places they use to fulfill these necessities IS a freaking invader asking for trouble.
Your very argument actually validates those pest races more considering the factions are miles more environmentally damaging and destructive and invaders to boot.
Which is a messed up message in the first place resulting from old prejudices -did you know Tolkien wrote his fancy fantasy saga based upon his experiences in the World War? Looking at it from today´s PoV, do you think it´s “decent” to simply give a broad “THEY¨RE EVUL CAUSE LUL” brand to the men of the East (coded artistically in the movies as middle asia people) to justify HIS side (AKA Aragorn and those European coded guys) killing them in the droves? Cause I think that´s nothing but biased BS. People and nations ARE more complex than that. And pretending one side is absolutely morally and ethically justified in killing other people just because of a wide political connotation IS the stuff irl terrorist use to justify their crimes.
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Just gonna casually point out that for the vast majority of any border anywhere in the world, it’s just continuous land. There’s no like global network of fences and walls or steel lines implanted onto the ground that resemble a map of the world.
The spaces between the bridges and highways along the US MX and US CA border is just forest and desert and plains and mountains and a few rivers.
Because in Tolkien’s universe, Orcs are an inherently fallen race incapable of doing Good due to magical spiritual corruption.
Which he admits was motivated by racist ideas and soon after regretted writing the Orcs that way because it validated notions of racism and “everyone actually has both inside them” (paraphrasing, referring to a tendency to good and a tendency to evil)
It isn’t. People chose to make it so because nobody likes to recognize what Lovecraft and Tolkien said about their own works and what should not have been written or done, motivated by crap ideas they used to have.
In most mythologies the “monster races” are actually often good, only a handful are bad, and most are complex in mythology. It’s usually just Normal Monsters (singular, not a race) that are bad in myths.
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He actually didn’t want there to be an allegory to real life, and was quite annoyed when he realized that you could draw some parallels to real life, and his own. But he certianly didn’t intend it.
Maybe not, if you are insistent on drawing parallels to real life with every step you go. Sometimes, I think you can have a story of good vs evil, whether it contains humans or not, or references to real life cultures.
Well, that’s the real problem. You gotta separate fantasy and real life. One should not have any bearing on real life, beyond enjoyment of the stories themselves.
Yes it is. Even in the most pacifistic dnd run, you are almost certain to run into something you can only overcome with force. Conflict is a staple of fiction and real life, and conflict often leads to violence. You don’t hear about how Beowulf overcame the dragon in a rhetoric battle. Instead, he killed it, at the cost of his own life. How about Hercules, who strangled the nemean lion. Or Guan yu, who became deified as a god after his death because of his martial prowess, measured in how many he had killed. Conflict is a steadfast companion of humanity, and we tend to deify, not villify, those who fight on our side.
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Simple answer? No. Because Blizzard -
LOVE
Their ‘Alliance good’ and ‘Horde bad / evil!’ trope. They’ve demonised / villain batted the Horde how many times now? 
Heck even the Alliance are getting tired of it given it makes them look bad for ‘Oh looks like we have to whip them back in line - YET AGAIN!’
I swear the only races on the Horde that have most their $#!^ together is the Blood Elves, Tauren and maybe Trolls - then perhaps the Horde Allied races I suppose. The rest are a disorganised mess, that it seems Blizzard don’t seem to know what to do with / use them only in convenience - and that can be said for pretty much all of the Alliance’s Allied races too.
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No. Because they can’t even get past the first base. I mean boss!
If I can get some Alliance-themed-armor for the Siege of Stormwind raid I’m all in.
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Giving more thought honestly can’t see it.
But that has more to do with I don’t believe Blizzard will care enough to write a story with the Alliance as the aggressors. Blizzard’s schtick of “M E T A L” is to have the faction do stupid acts of evil, then have someone there to show how “M E T A L” they are by saying “No we don’t want to be evil! We will rebel!” and then pat themselves on the back and go “This is what the faction is all about.”
That requires time and effort which I really don’t see them doing for the Alliance as a whole. They may do it for individuals, like turning say Jaina into a evil raid boss to be smacked down, but I don’t see it being a story about the Alliance. It’ll just be a story about Evil Jaina and a small circle of supporting actors.
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Oh yes, I´m aware of this. I´m talking more about “legal borders”… which are effectively nonexistant in WoW.
PREACH IT!!!
Also, as a cheap latin american, I just got to watch the Witcher Series on Netflix… and while it has gotten fire and brimstone regarding the quality of the adaptation, it IS refreshing to see “traditional fantasy stapples” that don´t treat humans as Purity Sues but as people just as bad and corrupted -sometimes even worse than the monsters- as the “monsters” that live in their world.
I liked it so much I think I´m looking to buy the books to read them.
Of course he didn´t want it, cause then he would had had to accept how irresponsible he acted while preaching prejudiced and inmoral stuff he basically vomited onto random people (and that is NOT myth. Actual myths DO have lessons of life and aren´t simple Humans = Good Monsters = Bad).
Any writer worth it´s weight KNOWS the things they create DO have connotations that WILL be extrapolated into real life. Why do you think the first stuff Humans created in writting media were basically Myths and Legends? Cause they needed a way to explain irl stuff!!!
Says the poster demanding to “hurt” the Horde because they commited “A wAr CrImE” against a fictional race… you aware War Crimes are actually nonexistant as per the actual in-universe development of the story? (and no, Christie Golden making her n-esim iteration of soap opera drama is NOT actual validation considering there´s no in-universe legal mechanism validating this stance.
Maybe leave the double standards in the door and follow your own advice for once?
Welcome to “writting for self inserting”. No message, no actual character development -if anything, the Pet Sues in this game are static obstacles that inevitably twist the story like a pretzel so the “message” they have been preaching since the beginning stays validated regardless of how incoherent or downright stupid it ends up looking in the actual execution of the story-.
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But does every story have to have a moral? Can’t an author simply create a story, for the sake of creating a story that they enjoy? Not because they want to create a messege, or to spread their morals, but just because they want to tell a certain story, whether it be about kings or queens, dragons or demons etc. Sometimes a story should be just that, a story.
Is it really that wrong of me, who is immersed in the faction I play, to want the Horde to either make up for what they did, or pay in blood, for the things that happened in the lore? I know it’s not real life, i’m just immersed in the story, and in a universe i’m quite fond of.
And newsflash, i separate the Horde faction in lore, and the playable faction every time this is brought up. I have nothing against Horde players, except maybe just a little towards those that would deny me my meager satisfaction.
When there are double standards, sure. Cause there are none here. Just a guy who enjoys, or at least used to enjoy, a story.
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Certainly not… but then again, if the story has no moral / message whatsoever, then why care over the “moral” stance of the characters in the first place? Ergo, why I /facepalm when you put your /pikachu face while confronted with actual coherency… cause you can´t come here to preach how the “evil” Hordies have to “pay” for their “crimes against the Nelves” just to do a 180° a preach killing less evolved races is A-ok cause your character is member of a faction written based upon wrongly executed fantasy tropes… that´s like a literal contradiction, dude (and we usually call those contradictions double standards).
Tl;dr: if you want to complain and demand writting content based upon morality and messages related to morality then apply those to EVERYTHING… or don´t bother at all, period.
It is when in the same breath you want to pretend your character is the most moralistic goodie two shoes even while he literally ASSASSINATES native individuals for a pair of shoes.
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She accused me of a double standard as well, and promptly slinked out after I asked her to provide what it was she was talking about.