Specifically, over the lands and holdings of the Argent Dawn in Lordaeron. With Tirion dead and no new Highlord chosen could/would they crown someone as a new king or queen?
Incredibly unlikely, the Argent Dawn & Crusade has never desired to become a political body, and even if they did they’d have no actual right to back it up.
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Anyone can be crowned king or queen of anywhere. Well, as long as you can enforce that claim.
When looking at claims the right that trumps all is the right of might.
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The successor to Tirion’s position hasn’t been specifically named, but it’s almost certainly Maxwell Tyrosus, since he’s the most senior surviving established NPC associated with the Argent Dawn, and he served as the second-in-command of the paladin order hall in Legion.
I suppose the Argent Crusade could theoretically change their structural model to that of a monarchy, but it would be very strange for them to do so, since they’re basically a fraternal order, and moreover one that has always included members from both Alliance and Horde nations. Declaring a self-crowned monarch of Lordaeron, or even just of Hearthglen, would put them into conflict with both the Alliance and Horde when they’ve always been neutral to the faction war, and would risk a massive conflict of loyalties within their membership. Why change their mission and take such a massive risk of losing allies and support that they currently enjoy? Who would even take up such a mantle, since the membership is so varied? Tirion famously didn’t have any surviving family within the Argent Crusade who could claim Hearthglen as their inheritance.
As for military might to enforce such a claim, they may not have the power needed to do so. We can’t know for certain how strong they are currently, but the Argent Crusade has gotten hit hard a few times in the past, and they didn’t seem to be overflowing with personnel when we saw them last in Shadowlands.
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Absolutely NOT.
The throne of Lordaeron belongs to Calia Menethil, by right. All laws and customs are on her side, as she is the only active member of the royal house of Menethil.
The throne of Lordaeron rightfully belongs to Calia.
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Agreed that Calia’s the only character (as far as we know, since her child’s status is unknown) that can reasonably make any claim to the old Menethil throne. That said, the usual laws and customs probably didn’t address what to do when the heir apparent commits regicide and murders most of the population before raising them as an undead army, or what impact dying and being raised as undead has on one’s position in the line of succession.
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Laws and customs don’t care about whether someone is good or bad. No one liked Joffrey, everyone hated him, yet everyone still acknowledged that Joffrey was the rightful heir. (who didn’t know the truth of course)
No one cares about what Arthas did, in-universe he was still considered the rightful heir of Lordaeron. The first mission of the Undead campaign of the expansion is called “King Arthas”, in fact, referring to Arthas becoming the King of Lordaeron.
With Arthas dead, Calia is now the rightful heir of Lordaeron.
So much for neutrality.
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Arthas was King, but he was overthrown by the population, breaking the continuation of the dynasty, with Sylvanas establishing her rule by right of conquest and the consent of the population. As the Forsaken did not choose a new monarch after she abdicated her position by abandonment, but instead chose to establish a new form of government that did specifically did not include a monarch, the old monarchy has been effectively dismantled and abolished. Calia could certainly try to reclaim it, but it would be a revival of a currently defunct system, not a continuation of the old government.
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Yeah, Calia claiming the throne would amount to a wholly new paradigm rather than anything derived from the legitimacy of the old one. The old monarchy would have been validated by the existence of nobles who owed fealty to and endorsed the rule of the royal family. By all indications, the nobility of Lordaeron were all but wiped out. Technically Tirion was lord of Hearthglen, but he lost his title and holdings when he got banished, so even before the time of his death he didn’t hold the same claims as before the fall of Lordaeron (if we’re to presume any legal standing from the fallen kingdom still applied.) Tyrosus is/was a “Lord” of something, but even then, the nobility are made such by way of owning land and the associated power it brings, so unless he retains ownership of his hereditary lands (and those lands actually have any actionable value in their current state), even his title may be little more than an honorific with no real power behind it, with his rank and leadership in the Argent Dawn deriving entirely from his position as a paladin. Other than them, we’d seen no real indication that any noble families escaped the Scourging, let alone still hold claim to the properties that would have sourced their power and provided relevance to the crown.
There might theoretically be Lordaeronian nobles among the Forsaken and Scourge, but the thing is, noble and royal bloodlines are conceived on the premise of hereditary continuity, and the undead can’t produce children. On that same premise, even if Calia were formally crowned named Queen of Lordaeron, she’d technically not be doing so as a continuation of the old Menethil line, since the rule of a king or queen is as much based upon the provision of subsequent continuity as the existence of prior, and as a reanimated corpse she’ll be producing no descendants.
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Fanfiction.
Calia is the only Menethil left active, therefore she is the rightful heir of Lordaeron.
It’s literally Monarchy 101.
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Actually, Turalyon is a nobleman from Lordaeron, and he is currently the Regent of Stormwind.
Stormwind would firmly back Calia’s claim to the throne of Lordaeron.
Not only were a lot of the nobility wiped out, but many supported the Cult of the Damned, arguably making their claims subject to being stripped from them as punishment for treason (looking at you, Barov family) even if they did survive. Taelan was evidently allowed to succeed to Tirion’s holdings when Tirion was excommunicated, but he died before Tirion did and left no heirs, and Tirion reclaimed Hearthglen by force from the Scarlets.
Agreed.
Don’t forget the Ebon Blade. The Ashbringer comic implies that Alexandros Mograine may have been nobility, or at least was afforded certain privileges of such, as both he and his sons are addressed in such terms throughout that are consistent with such status, and the family owned a house in Brill. I don’t foresee Darion making a claim, though, since he’s rather committed to the Ebon Blade, and Renault burned the place down.
Monarchy 101 would also include that without military and financial support, a claim of succession based on lineage means nothing. English history alone is full of royals with less solid claims on paper seizing the throne because they have the superior support from other nobles, often because the “rightful”, most obvious heir, is unpopular.
Calia’s child is not fanfiction, and whether or not said child is still alive, Calia has not actually pressed a claim, instead legitimizing the new Desolate Council with her participation. The child’s unknown status is only relevant in that a claim could be made on the child’s behalf that Calia’s right to the throne ended when she died, leaving her child as the only true heir. This is the argument made by the Scarlet Brotherhood in their propaganda, though they are definitely lying about having Calia’s child in their care.
As it currently stands, the only widely acknowledged remaining heir to Terenas Menethil II has refused to take up the crown and has instead supported the government that replaced it. The monarchy is defunct.
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I can’t believe I forgot about her. Well then, the matter is settled.
Calia’s child, let’s call her “Princess Menethil”, is the last living scion of House Menethil, the royal house of Lordaeron. Therefore, she is the rightful heir to Lordaeron.
Turalyon, the Regent of Stormwind, is a Lordaeron nobleman, and many Lordaeron refugees live in Stormwind since the Third War. Furthermore, Stormwind-Lordaeron have always been described as “sister kingdom”, with a strong sense of kinship with one another.
With the help of Regent Turalyon and Stormwind, Princess Menethil will reclaim her birthright, the throne of Lordaeron.
Furthermore, Princess Menethil is around a similar age to Anduin (both born shortly before the Third War), therefore Princess Menethil can be wed to King Anduin to formally unite Stormwind and Lordaeron under one crown.
Oh Yes, great things are coming, great things indeed. Be on the lookout for Princess Menethil; she is coming, and she will reclaim her birthright.
The Scarlet Brotherhood are just crazy fanatics. To begin with, Calia had a daughter, not a son like the Scarlet fanatics claim. That’s how you know that they are fake news. Calia’s daughter will reclaim her throne with the help of Turalyon and Stormwind.
She claims nothing since she doesn’t want it.
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The denizens of Lordaeron do not want a new monarch. Besides, forcing social inequality on others is more of an Alliance thing.
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Its so bad, I hate how it’s even poisoned the gnomes, who used to be something of a meritocracy.
Though I guess they were always a little “some gnomes are more equal than others” given they exiled one gnome for having his blueprints stolen by Thermaplugg while lauding Mekkatorque even after he helped Thermaplugg perfect his murderdeathkill gas.
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You’re equal until you make yourself a liability is usually the go to way of thinking for some people
Technically there are a few paladins that are of noble families and by their rank and status they can reconstitute the lands they hold into a new state. We know that Weldon Barov lives and by this fact he is the heir to much of the communities in Lordaeron. Should the Argent Crusade wish to establish a true independent state they can use the Lordaeron survivors which are resettling Southshore for the Alliance and Silverpine with their own numbers and make a true New Lordaeron, but the Forsaken can retort as they have Calia Menethil making any legitimacy claims very hollow as she is the heir to the crown of Terenas, but since she’s undead they can say, “The dead have no claims of inheritance and by law that falls on the living” the problem is how can enforce this? Turalyon maybe since he is a Lordaeron noble.
Their want is of no relevance. The Forsaken shouldn’t even exist in the living world as they are an unnatural anomaly.