Even the sweatiest guilds in Vanilla would have been considered ultra casual by Classic standards.
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Obviously.
Players get better at a game when they play for years and years.
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Yeah optimization has been around since the dawn of time. I still stand by the notion it’s way more in your face in 2025 though.
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The thing that has really changed is that years ago good players weren’t really known. At least not to the degree they are now. We have access to so many websites where people can display how good they are which we didn’t have access to years ago.
So what has really changed is that bad players are now way more insecure, and that insecurity turns to hate because they are jealous of how good players can show off how good they are, and more importantly, people have access to information that shows how bad players are.
You can see it all over this forum and in this very thread. Bad players spewing hate towards good players over everything.
But that’s obvious.
Look how the internet has changed from 2004 to 2025.
“No Oddjob!”
I don’t really think insecurity is an accurate word here because the expectation of players as a whole has also risen due to the proportional increase of min/maxxers. It’s very much a player driven issue, both at a macro level and on an individual level. Like someone described they need full prebis consumes and enchants to get into guild raids and pugs. There is an external pressure that can’t really be dismissed.
I think at the end of the day, people just want to play with other people they deem to have the same goals as them. More people min/maxxing, caring about parses, etc = more of a desire to play with people who think the same way and for better or worse that trickles down in any quasi competitive game.
This is also just simply because the game has been out for over 20 years and players have seen it so many times that “enjoying the scenery” or taking 4 hours inside MC is not only annoying, but completely unnecessary.
It’s also players not wanting to put up with people who are lazy. With all the information we have access to, someone trying to raid in greens and refusing to buy basic consumables is pretty inexcusable. It’s EXTREMELY easy to get pre bis and some basic consumables. So when you have somebody wanting to raid who hasn’t even done the bare minimum, it’s a little difficult to feel sympathy for them.
It’s like when you work with somebody who doesn’t even want to do the bare minimum.
But also, the main thing is these people are so lazy that they refuse to even find like minded gamers where they can enjoy the game the way they want in their own space. You can go to the Nightslayer discord RIGHT NOW and find guilds who are not min maxing, but they don’t want to do that, which is the big issue. They don’t want solutions. They want an echo chamber where they can hate on better players because they aren’t good at the game themselves.
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Lazy is a good word, yeah. I can say I definitely didn’t have prebis and still don’t because I was too lazy to farm it out and, more importantly, I don’t find spamming 3 bosses in a dungeon enjoyable. Gold is relatively easy to generate for me though so I compromise and full consume. But I also am self aware enough to have joined a guild that doesn’t care if I have those items. Can’t say the same for a lot of people.
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Exactly and that’s the thing. There are options for all types of players, but it’s up to the players to seek out those options.
But I know the people on this forum don’t want to do that. They just want to pat each other on the back while they spew hate towards good players, because when we present solutions to them, they either disappear or start trolling.
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To be fair I did take a day off work and grinded out douse rep for week 1 to make sure they took me lmao
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Hell ya and that’s what the game is about.
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Yeah idk the minute I stopped worrying about “needing” to do things and started asking myself am I enjoying what I’m doing I was liberated.
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Exactly. Don’t pressure yourself into playing the game in a way that isn’t enjoyable.
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Some play to forget, some play to remember, some play to relax
The problem is the people who can’t shut up about the way they are playing and need validation from everyone else all the time, like if it isn’t working for you, switch it up mang
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Some people want everyone else to play the way they want to play, and they lash out at the people who are playing the game in a different way than they are.
It’s sad.
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I walked away from a pretty comfy gdkp spot going into cata because I was like yeah I actually hate raiding I’m only doing this for the gold so it’s just not worth it
So guess what? I don’t raid lmao crazy I know
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That’s the natural way to approach a video game.
Anyway, look at every post that other guy makes. It’s just trying to demean and insult ‘bad players’. His entire persona is trying to flex over a video game. This is what would have been laughed at in Vanilla, but it’s commonplace today. The exception has become the norm.
These types of players actually look down on players who just play for fun. It’s literally beyond their comprehension. And that mentality is a virus that infects others and you end up with the horribly toxic environment of Megaservers.
On healthy servers where there’s an actual community…it’s much less prevalent. See: Era.
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^^^^^
You can get a clear view of a troll who chimes in just to insult me.
He doesn’t want a discussion.
He just wants to spread hate.
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I believe you both are the yin and yang of the forums